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> Just how easy is it to hack a drone net?, Newbie SR4 question...
Aria
post Mar 20 2010, 05:01 PM
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This isn't something I've ever had to bother with much in past editions of SR but it seems like drones have become cheaper and there's no real reason for anyone with a comlink not to use one...or is there?!?

Taking the drone rigger from the rulebook as an example, how easy would it be for a corp spider to turn his drones against him? If he's jumped in then it means cybercombat in the drone node right (and therefore probably not worth the effort)? Otherwise it's a case of spoofing or outright taking over the drone. How easy is it to find the drone's node on the matrix for example (still new to this wireless world as you can see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) ) and then tinker with its programming?

Thanks very much

A
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Mantis
post Mar 20 2010, 06:29 PM
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As easy (or hard) as it is to hack any other type of system. Most drones come with a default of 3 for their system, response, signal and firewall but a smart rigger will bump those up or else slave it to his commlink to protect them. You need to intercept the wireless traffic (matrix operation) to get the access code to spoof commands. Otherwise you just do a search for wireless signals for the drone (4 if you know where it is/can see it) otherwise 15 if you are just looking for all wireless signals in the area, and then hack away as you normally would. You can outfit a drone with things like IC or agents to protect it as well as setting commands to change when it has its wireless on, add fuzzy logic so it can run more autonomously, etc. I think there are a few threads somewhere on here about buffing out your drones to make them more hacker proof. Of course if you have the owner's pass codes you can spoof to your heart's content without worrying about that.
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AndyZ
post Mar 20 2010, 06:36 PM
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I'm oversimplifying a bit but want to make this clear as I don't want to weigh you down in minutiae.

Not sure if you have the Unwired book, but most riggers will "slave" their drones to their commlink. That means that the rigger has full admin access to the drone, the drone won't accept any other connections and forwards them back to the master.

Using wireless this way, you either have to hack the master node or spoof. Hacking the master node would be hacking on the fly as explained in the core book (not sure if you have the 20a book or I'd give page numbers) and spoofing is likewise explained. However, I'll try to oversimplify them both.

Hacking the master node basically means that you'd try to force your way into the other person's commlink. The commlink gets Firewall+Analyze rolls against the hacker's Hacking+Exploit rolls. If they get in, I expect it would come down to cybercombat.

Spoofing requires you to get the access ID of the master node and then roll Hacking+Spoof against the drone's Pilot+Firewall. If the hacker beats the drone, s/he convinces the drone that the command they just gave is genuine, whether to shut down, break off from the slaving or to shoot the rigger in the head.

I hope that helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
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DireRadiant
post Mar 20 2010, 08:08 PM
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Given time, anything can be Hacked. It takes several steps, but eventually the Hacker will get through. In on the spot encounters it's a little more challenging for the Hacker, they can take shortcuts, but almost all strategies involve a successful sequence of steps.

One thing not yet mentioned, but a Jumped In Drone is almost impossible to take away, it's the Remote Controlled or Commanded drones that can be Hacked.
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Red-ROM
post Mar 20 2010, 08:09 PM
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yea, I'm a fan of riggers. And switching to SR4 was tough on these guys. You need all the bells and whistles that any other node has. Data bombs have been made pretty lethal. I would recomend some of those. and Agents are like drones inside of drones, which is cool. I think the new rules, while making it harder on a rigger, also makes it more interesting
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Udoshi
post Mar 21 2010, 12:16 AM
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The easiest way to take control of drones is with a jammer, especially if they're being controlled via jumping-in, because it means dumpshock for the other guy.
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Jaid
post Mar 21 2010, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Mar 20 2010, 08:16 PM) *
The easiest way to take control of drones is with a jammer, especially if they're being controlled via jumping-in, because it means dumpshock for the other guy.


that won't get you control, that will just get the other guy to lose control. maybe.
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Udoshi
post Mar 21 2010, 02:01 AM
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No, but jumped-in riggers override external commands. The easiest way to jack a drone is to boot the other guy, then jump in yourself.

More Than Metahuman makes it significantly easier, because its no longer a simple action to jump into a drone, but a Free one - which lets you use that complex to do something about the current rigger. Here's an example.

As the aggressor in such a drone-jacking situation, would probably be something like this: (Note: 4A rules)
Pass 1: Scan for hidden Node.
Pass 2: Hack on the fly for admin access, edge, rolling at least 4(group)+2(exploit spec)+2(hotsim)+5(program)+3(edge) = 16 dice vs a threshold of(guessing here) 4(Security drone)+6 for Admin = 10.
(in my testroll, exploding sixes yielded 11 hits, and I don't particularly want to think about multiple passes for a quick example, so..)
pass 3: Hack-on-the-fly action logs me onto the drone node without an action. Analyzer set to auto-mode renders the rigger's icon, possibly with edge use if he's running stealth. Complex action: Terminate connection(any user may do this, unwired 68), which will auto-boot the rigger because they're using an authorized account(unless, somehow, they've hacked -their- way onto the drone too) - and a free action to jump inside.

In an actual game, I'd probably have an agent log in beside me, and begin severing active subscriptions(These can be used for hack-on-the-fly attempts! If, say, the drone's linked to other drones on a tacnet - the rigger could simply route his connection to one of those and hop back on the drone node), wiping the access logs, change the alert-response, and throw down some encryption - so I don't have to waste actions securing my newfound securitydrone before getting to shooting people with it.

An alternative, and more thurough way to duplicate the 'authorized rigger is gone effect' is to smartjammer his connection, which nukes control over -all- of his drones, and probably busts up the Centralized Tacnet he's running.
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Falconer
post Mar 21 2010, 04:59 AM
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Udoshi... you forgot an important step.

Breaking the encryption on the node. ANY rigger worth his salt will pay for a reasonable encrypt program, keep it running on the drone to A. encrypt the node, and B. encrypt his communications subscription to the drone.

Against jammers a good ECCM program is far superior and able to completely negate most jammers unfortunately. (sad when a signal 10 jammer is hard pressed to wipe out a ECCM6 signal3 drone because of the super-fast jam strength range degradation). This is one reason I really like the jam on the fly rules in unwired for turning jamming into opposed EW tests.


Also, lets not forget, that the riggers icon is active in all nodes he's subscribed to. Forget dropping connections, if he's rigging he's helpless when it comes to cybercombat. You've got a good chance of attacking him in cybercombat w/ blackout/hammer and trapping him in cybercombat and unable to control his drones and actually knocking him out or killing him... then taking the drones.

Having a bodyguard/copilot agent is normally a good idea to watch your back. Do things while you're busy fighting like man the sensors (look at the active targetting rules for locking onto targets to gain extra dice).
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Udoshi
post Mar 21 2010, 05:17 AM
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Doh. Encryption. Duh.

Yes, decrypting is important. Even critical.

With the right specialty, though, jamming isn't too bad.

I'm pretty sure a rigger can cyber-combat fight right back, though. At least in the game-set-match gameplay description, a rigger was able to break out a Nuke program just fine to deal with intruders. Black IC does have an important benefit, though, of being able to keep a rigger's attention in one node. Forcing a rigger to cyberfight also has a nice benefit of making him not use actions meat-side. I'll have to keep that in mind - might just keep riggers from shooting your friends.
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SpellBinder
post Mar 21 2010, 05:18 AM
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And a good Pavlov data bomb in each node as well to catch the more inept hackers off guard.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 21 2010, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Mar 20 2010, 10:18 PM) *
And a good Pavlov data bomb in each node as well to catch the more inept hackers off guard.



Indeed... which quickly becomes...

Find node,
Decrypt the Signal,
Inspect the signal port for data bombs (hopefully not hidden; if you do not inspect, you run into the Pavlov enabled Data Bomb taking damage)
Defuse the Data Bomb (Hope that it is not monitored by an Agent with instructions to reactivate when it goes down)
Hack the System on the Fly (Hope that there is not an alert caused by defusing the databomb)
Gain Access to the System
Then attempt to do whatever you need to do, all the while hoping that your Stealth Program is keeping you hidden...

A lot of If's there... a Competent Hacker will overcome these obstacles, but it will take time... and there is still no guarantee that you will do it quickly enough to make a difference...

Keep the Faith
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Udoshi
post Mar 21 2010, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Mar 20 2010, 11:18 PM) *
And a good Pavlov data bomb in each node as well to catch the more inept hackers off guard.


Speaking of Data Bombs, i know what was one thing they changed from 4th -> 4thAnniversary. Can anyone tell me how they used to work? I'm rather curious.
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SpellBinder
post Mar 22 2010, 12:06 AM
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Reading between the two versions, SR4 & SR4a, there's more than one change.

First, in SR4 a Data Bomb had to be a running program (so impacted your performance) and was attached to a file or node, and could also erase the file as well when it detonated. In SR4a, you just have to run the Data Bomb program long enough to attach a data bomb (note the difference in capitalization) to a particular file or node (so won't impact your performance when it matters), and it can erase the targeted file or crash the node when it detonates.

Second, in SR4 a Data Bomb dealt its rating in Matrix damage equal to its rating to the icon that tripped it when triggered, then crashed itself. In SR4a, a data bomb deals Matrix damage equal to (rating x 1D6) instead and then deletes itself.
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Fatum
post Mar 22 2010, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Mar 22 2010, 03:06 AM) *
Second, in SR4 a Data Bomb dealt its rating in Matrix damage equal to its rating to the icon that tripped it when triggered, then crashed itself. In SR4a, a data bomb deals Matrix damage equal to (rating x 1D6) instead and then deletes itself.


SR4A Core page 231: "When a data bomb is triggered, it causes its rating in Matrix Damage to the icon that tripped it and performs its secondary effect (if any), and then is deleted".
What am I doing wrong?
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SpellBinder
post Mar 22 2010, 01:55 AM
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Yeah, I saw that part under the Matrix Actions just as you posted. But SR4a page 233: "... When it 'detonates,' a data bomb inflicts a number of boxes of Matrix damage equal to (rating x 1D6), then the data bomb is deleted."

The info I used is directly from the software description itself.
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Fatum
post Mar 22 2010, 02:50 AM
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I'm not great at forum searches, but it doesn't seem this issue has been addressed. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could comment?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 22 2010, 02:54 AM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 21 2010, 07:50 PM) *
I'm not great at forum searches, but it doesn't seem this issue has been addressed. Maybe someone more knowledgeable could comment?



Which Issue? Data Bombs?

If I remember correctly, the Errata corrects the mistake in the SR4A book for Matrix Actions... Data Bombs deal (Rating * 1d6) in Damage when triggerred... Our Table still requires that Data Bomb be an active program in your program list...

Keep the Faith
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Fatum
post Mar 22 2010, 03:43 AM
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Aha, I did a little research - Errata has nothing about it, but the pdf on AE Changes has its lethality raised listed. So I guess it was intended to be corrected, but never was.
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Aria
post Mar 22 2010, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 21 2010, 05:36 PM) *
...A lot of If's there... a Competent Hacker will overcome these obstacles, but it will take time... and there is still no guarantee that you will do it quickly enough to make a difference...


Thanks guys! Seems to me that the small surveillance drones that aren't intended to be seen are perhaps a little safer, and load up any combat drones for confrontation in the matrix aswell as 'in the flesh' ...then hope the rigger notices something is amiss in time to do something about it...extra encryption? switch channels? jam the other hacker?!?

Just looked up the 'homeground' quality...could a rigger reasonably take the matrix node for their commlink as their turf? Not mentioned specifically in the rules but it is certainly somewhere they would know intimately...bonuses only for the purposes of cyber combat within their commlink node rather than giving any bonuses to rigging in general, they would know the architecture of their own node quite well and be able to turn it against an intruder...thoughts anyone?

A
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