New FAQ!, 'bout time Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ah... so one way to read "a spirit" is "a single spirit" as opposed to the way I had read it, "a source which is a spirit". Am I in the minority here?

I have always interpreted it as "A" spirit, not "The" Spirit...
So, in this instance, you would only be able to receive Endowment once, and while you had that endowment, you could not have another...

"A" Car is a class of vehicles... "The" car is a specific vehicle...

Thus A Spirit is a class of spirit... whereas The Spirit is the one you just summoned (it is a particular spirit)...

Just my 2 Nuyen...

Keep the Faith

[Draco18s]

So you're purposely including stuff in your sig to give people a hard time while reading Dumpshock, then?

I didn't do it to make it intentionally hard to read dumpshock (except the signature that grew outside of my posts, which I did for a day, and only happened if the browser was correctly rendering UTF-8, and that was done to be funny--I didn't use enough UTF-8 characters to actually make anything illegible and highlighting a word in a post caused the UTF-8 characters to be hidden behind the text).

Also: its actually not my fault that the forum allows UTF-8 characters that way. One forum I'm on allows UTF-8, but they're somehow contained to the signature box (I did the giant rising line and as soon as it hit the break between sig and post it stopped). Another forum didn't even let me use the characters at all (they got converted to garbage). So I did it "to see if I could" and once I could, and had my laugh, I turned it back into something reasonable. I figured dumpshock users might appreciate the semi-hack* more than anywhere else, too.

*Its not really a hack, it just looks like it.

[Johnny B. Good]

Something that I did not see addressed in the Faq is the nature of Olfactory boosters and scent tracking. While according to the faq adepts' Enhanced Smell power give them access to the Scent Tracking table (Page 206, running wild), there still hasn't been any clarification as to whether Olfactory boosters do the same. The table implies that enhanced pheromone receptors do, and add their rating to the test. Any indication on whether or not olfactory boosters will become useful in that respect?

[Ancient History]

<shrug> I'm all for it.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Of course, the Olfactory Booster entry itself is the reference for olfactory scanners, both used as chemsniffers and as pheromone scanners – and that's the scanner by itself.

So with an actual brain behind it, tracking somebody based on scent shouln't be an issue.

[sn0mm1s]

Of course, the Olfactory Booster entry itself is the reference for olfactory scanners, both used as chemsniffers and as pheromone scanners – and that's the scanner by itself.

So with an actual brain behind it, tracking somebody based on scent shouln't be an issue.

Which would then beg the question of why get the inferior Improved Scent power when "any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power"?

The olfactory booster can go up to rating 6 - giving 6 dice vs 2 dice from the FAQ. The booster also lets you smell many other things not listed under the critter power.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

You mean like the only earware added in Augmentation, Increased Sensitivity, does less than Audio Enhancement in the main book?
Shit happens. Shadowrun drags along lots of leftovers that even the fourth edition couldn't cleanup completely. They grouped a lot of implants sensibly and removed some cruft, but they couldn't get it all.

The Taste Booster is the same ballpark. It does the same thing as the Olfactory Booster (by RAW!), just for the sense of taste. Aside from you now being able to determening really well how salty, sweet, sour, bitter and umami something is, this means you can detect poisons (or explosives) by the time the are in you mouth. Instead of just detecting them with the chemsniffer function of your Olfactory Booster before you put them in your mouth in the first place.
Just they already rolled the analytical and the sense enhancing implants in one, so they weren't willing to roll smell and taste in one.

[darthmord]

Not only that, but the spirit could endow the mage with Endowment!

The mage then could endow the entire party with Innate Spell (spirit endows it to the mage first) and give the entire party spellcasting, magic, edge, astral projection, possession....Endowment...

It's a giant magical circle jerk.

(Quick, exit thread before succumbing to the desire to make a sexual joke!)

I believe there is a limit of one endowment per person per spirit. Such that if a mage wanted to do that, he'd need two spirits to do it. One to endow Materialization and one to endow Endowment.

[Fatum]

I'm certainly no expert on guns, but it seems most instances of "firing into a crowd" in the news cause remarkably few casualties, so I don't have a problem with this being "mostly harmless".

Well, with the new clarification of the suppressive fire rules, it can make quite a number of bodies, in fact.

[KCKitsune]

Which would then beg the question of why get the inferior Improved Scent power when "any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power"?

The olfactory booster can go up to rating 6 - giving 6 dice vs 2 dice from the FAQ. The booster also lets you smell many other things not listed under the critter power.

OK, based on this, is getting the "Vomeronasal Organ" metagenic quality (RC pg 116) redundant when you get an olfactory booster? Can you do exactly the same things, but have none of the bad side effects*? If so I'm dropping that metagenic quality and getting biocompatibility (cyberware).

* == more vulnerable to tailored pheromones (double effective), and has problems with really bad smells.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Metagenetic Qualities don't have to be better – they are just things that can happen through SURGE.

And of course, they are undetectable by either cyberware scanner or asensing… not that it matters much in this case.

[Fatum]

Metagenetic Qualities don't have to be better – they are just things that can happen through SURGE.

And of course, they are undetectable by either cyberware scanner or asensing… not that it matters much in this case.

Wait, wait, SURGE is undetectable with assensing?

[FriendoftheDork]

I'm certainly no expert on guns, but it seems most instances of "firing into a crowd" in the news cause remarkably few casualties, so I don't have a problem with this being "mostly harmless".

Well... no. Sure, inaccurate gunfire tends to cause few intended casualties, but alot of people (often innocents) die in drive-by shootings. Adding automatic weapons into the mix makes alot of difference. Which is why some leftist radical people (probably all evil communists or facists) don't like the idea that automatic weapons are available to the general public.

Now I'd like Supressive Fire to be potentially lethal to most kinds of people (i.e. a potential to do 10P damage or more), but fairly inefficient in killing specific targets (compared to close burst which can do +9 damage over base). Also note that it only uses 20 rounds, which is actually a fairly controlled burst in the normal amount of time (3 seconds). Most automatic weapons are able to shoot 30 rounds in the same amount of time. Shooting Suppressive Fire for 4 passes is a bit much though, 80 bullets in 3 seconds is too much for most weapons. The venerable MG42 might pull it off, and certainly miniguns.

[Draco18s]

Most automatic weapons are able to shoot 30 rounds in the same amount of time. Shooting Suppressive Fire for 4 passes is a bit much though, 80 bullets in 3 seconds is too much for most weapons. The venerable MG42 might pull it off, and certainly miniguns.

Same gun, same hands, only difference is if the sammy turned on his wires.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Wait, wait, SURGE is undetectable with assensing?

Unless it's Astral Hazing…

[DWC]

Well, with the new clarification of the suppressive fire rules, it can make quite a number of bodies, in fact.

The new suppressive fire ruling makes a Steyr TMP loaded with SnS into a pretty solid weapon, since the incapacitation effect neatly sidesteps suppressive fire's use of only base weapon damage.

[AngelisStorm]

That's one thing that's always kinda bothered me. I realize that "it's just a game," but two people (one normal, one a juicer) both holding down the trigger for 3 seconds shouldn't lead to a 60 bullet difference.

Also, while it's far from perfect, don't forget about the Severe Wounds optional rules in Augmentation. Since Joe Smoe has a average stats of 2, that means the odds are pretty good that he will be hit by suppressive fire (drive by = Suprise Check everyone!), and that he will glitch or critically glitch on his damage resistance test.

Though I also feel unhappy that a drive by with an SMG only takes off a bit over half the condition modifier of Joe-on-the-Street. But it's how the rules are set up.

[FriendoftheDork]

The new suppressive fire ruling makes a Steyr TMP loaded with SnS into a pretty solid weapon, since the incapacitation effect neatly sidesteps suppressive fire's use of only base weapon damage.

S&S is already a very solid "weapon." But yeah I get your point. It's kinda expensive though.

That's one thing that's always kinda bothered me. I realize that "it's just a game," but two people (one normal, one a juicer) both holding down the trigger for 3 seconds shouldn't lead to a 60 bullet difference.

Also, while it's far from perfect, don't forget about the Severe Wounds optional rules in Augmentation. Since Joe Smoe has a average stats of 2, that means the odds are pretty good that he will be hit by suppressive fire (drive by = Suprise Check everyone!), and that he will glitch or critically glitch on his damage resistance test.

Though I also feel unhappy that a drive by with an SMG only takes off a bit over half the condition modifier of Joe-on-the-Street. But it's how the rules are set up.

Of course. Which is why I assumed that when you shoot you're not just holding down the trigger, you're firing in controlled bursts. Sammies have the advantage of targeting and compensating recoil quicker. But the ROF of the weapon itself should always be the high cap. The normal bursts are fine (max 10 rounds per pass), but 4 successive Suppressive Fire bursts shouldn't be allowed IMO. Not that it's a problem, ammo tends to limit one to one or two SF actions anyway.

[pbangarth]

S&S is already a very solid "weapon." But yeah I get your point. It's kinda expensive though.



Of course. Which is why I assumed that when you shoot you're not just holding down the trigger, you're firing in controlled bursts. Sammies have the advantage of targeting and compensating recoil quicker. But the ROF of the weapon itself should always be the high cap. The normal bursts are fine (max 10 rounds per pass), but 4 successive Suppressive Fire bursts shouldn't be allowed IMO. Not that it's a problem, ammo tends to limit one to one or two SF actions anyway.

I don't know. I'm hiding around the corner and stick the submachine gun around that corner and hold the trigger down, there ain't no controlled burst there. Just as much lead as I can spray the corridor with. I hold it for 3 seconds, the sammie holds it for 3 seconds, it's the weapon doing the bullet count for both of us.

[crizh]

Recoil only accumulates in single Action Phases. It's not unreasonable to assume that part of what gives people additional IP's is the ability to control weapon recoil.

Not to overcome it but to recover, reposition and fire again.

A case could be made that someone with only one IP is incapable of putting more than 20 rounds into anywhere other than the ceiling. They could fire 60 rounds in a combat round but 40 of them wouldn't go anywhere useful.

[Draco18s]

A case could be made that someone with only one IP is incapable of putting more than 20 rounds into anywhere other than the ceiling. They could fire 60 rounds in a combat round but 40 of them wouldn't go anywhere useful.

Except that they only every spend 20 out of their clip, it lasts the full 3 seconds, but if the sammy, with more passes, doesn't spend a second complex action maintaining the suppression (spending 20 more bullets) then no one gets hit that turn.

[crizh]

Yeah, that is wack.

You could houserule it to last until the same Initiative count on the next pass, a bit like grenades.

That could work nicely actually, one guy chucks a grenade and his pall fills the area with lead to stop anybody escaping or throwing it back.

[Draco18s]

You could houserule it to last until the same Initiative count on the next pass, a bit like grenades.

Likely, someone would be willing to take the spray in order to throw it back anyway: Edge to avoid, then resist [base] DV, or sit on top of a 10P explosion?

[Draco18s]

You could houserule it to last until the same Initiative count on the next pass, a bit like grenades.

Likely, someone would be willing to take the spray in order to throw it back anyway: Edge to avoid, then resist [base] DV, or sit on top of a 10P explosion?

[AngelisStorm]

Yeah, that is wack.

You could houserule it to last until the same Initiative count on the next pass, a bit like grenades.

That could work nicely actually, one guy chucks a grenade and his pall fills the area with lead to stop anybody escaping or throwing it back.

Kinda a neat idea (suppression fire lasting 1.5 seconds or 1/4 of a round). However it still leaves the question: Why can't a "normal" person hold the trigger down for 3 full seconds?

The suggestions that suppressive fire is actually controlled firing bursts (not "hold the trigger down") is interesting. But Suppressive Fire really seems like it's intended to spray an area (not controlled). No recoil (who cares, if the bullets are going wherever anyway), no "can't see target" penalty (great to drive by people in a house), and it can hit multiple people.

... this is just a thought off the top of my head (I have to get going in a minute), but what if Suppressive Fire takes a complex action to start (as normal), and then it takes a free action each pass to continue it? (With the implication that movement is broken into 4 passes, and everyone gets a free action every pass. Which I know has potential problems to.)