[X] My Assistant

[Manunancy]

Depending on what the other players are fielding as chracters, even the GM's permission might not keep you out of trouble. And even with teh GM's permission, it's a character that should get in trouble, because the sort of things his mentor expects of him will rub the majority of peoples the wrong way. Spiking baby milk at the kindergarten (or their underclass equivalent) with a cheap genetic infusion or mutagenic toxic waste isn't popular, even in the Barrens. Remember the mentor's creed is 'mutation is good, eat mutation'. Added to a dark magic tradition that's not exaclty a good thing at popularity contests it can quickly get you in trouble.

My impression is that this character is a bit like a chaotic evil character in AD&D - fun for one player, obnoxious and likely to get killed quickly for everyone else. With a strong 'i'm eeeeevil 'cuz eeeeevil is the lolz' vibe.


A tactical note : depending on how you're planning your astral support, bewae of the time limit of astral projections. And if you're planning on extended 'out-of-body' time, keep in mind that there a critters hanging around the astral that considers a body vacated by it's owner as a perfect opportuniy for body-snatching. One last thing : while projecting, you're using astral perception, even hen manifested. That means verbal and gestual communication only - depending on interpretation it can also mean you can't get information from written material, be it on paper or on screen.

complement : I'd suggest you to read the section on toxic mages from 'Street Magic' (pages 141-143) for a good feel of what's a toxic mage. It makes it obvious why they're not suitable PCs in a 'standart' game.

[SpellBinder]

By the way, what's a good guideline on how much bounty I get for a toxic mage? Is that written anywhere? Street Magic just said: "There is a bounty".

Was reading through Dunkelzahn's Will and hit one entry that immediately made me think of this thread...

In order to discourage the proliferation of toxic shamans, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any toxic shamans captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of toxicity on the physical and astral presence of such shamans, and how they in turn impact the physical and astral world.

There's also an earlier entry that's pretty much the same for blood mages too.

[dirkformica]

Threads like these always remind me why I'm so glad I only game with friends. I can't imagine a gaming environment that I'd feel comfortable playing in where my fellow players attacked me because I was evil or different from them. Similarly, if my GM was completely out to get me, I'd bow out. But since my circle are all friends who share GM roles, this has NEVER been a problem. Whenever I have played "evil", and this has happened quite often since we ALL were, it was tons of fun and a great diversion from the typical RPG morality. Then we'd get tired of it and play white knights again, but it was damn fun while it lasted. If everyone is on-board then you should be able to play whatever you want.

From a crunch perspective, if you want to be an astral support character you should definitely get Infiltration. You'll be able to hide from threats, and it'll be especially good since your natural Concealment power will help you on both the Physical and Astral plane. If you can throw out a couple of hits on your stealth test, when all of the opposition is at a -5, you'll be able to avoid a lot of dangerous circumstances. You should also get an offensive spell. Manabolt is nice, but since you'll probably just be giving it to your Spirit of Man, Stunball might be better. If you have a campaign with lots of Drones you might go with Lightning Bolt or Ball instead.

Also, since you're already going with some casting buff spells, and using spirits to sustain them, you might pump your spellcasting so that you can get some other good ones. Using spirits to crank up Reaction and Agility on your team work nicely too. Combat Senses can also be a great boon. If you are forced to join a run, you might also want Shapechange or Critter Form (note that the new FAQ allows Human as a Critter form) since that can boost your terrible physical skills up (although you might want more Spellcasting skill or leave the casting up to spirits.)

[Stingray]

.. by Runner's Companion; Pixie is advanced PC and get Distinctive Style, which means
he/she can be tracked down more easily. Pixie, toxic mage (open bounty hunt=Wanted neg. qual.) and Distinctive Style
is combination for VERY short lived PC.

[Manunancy]

There's also a little problem in that the character, if it's played as it's supposed to according to both his mentor spirit AND magiccal tradition, won't be good at teamwork (odds are he will even be abysmal at it) :

mutation mentor spirit : Followers of Mutation despise weakness. If the magician should ever exhibit a weakness or prove inferior to another, he suffers a –1 dice pool modifier to all actions until he somehow compensates for the weakness or overcomes his rival (leading many magicians to acquire new implants or other enhancements).

black magic tradition : A black magician’s ultimate focus is a quest for personal power, regardless of whether this comes from mastery
of the dark arts, secular powerbrokering, or pacts with the dark powers from beyond the mortal realm.

That combination is likely to make the character a obnoxious, bossy jerk. An incarnation of the 'my way or no way' attitude. Basically likely to be content only with servants or dupes, if not slaves, rather than partners. Wtih said servants being utterly disposable. Add to that the fact that his mentor spirit will lead him to actions that most peoples will find abbhorent and he won't take 'no' for an answer if you don't get along, the odds are high he'll meet an early death. unless the whole party is along that line and the whole game is aligned close to his goals. Of which society as a whole will take a very dim view, even out of the law-abiding elements.

A real world analogy would be a drug dealer who's a bossy and overbearing bully, and has a side business as a fervent Al-Quaida supporter along with a propensity for random acts of terrorism. Not what I'd call the recipe for a sucessful ciminal carrier , and someone run-of-the-mill criminals are more likely to sell to the cops or quietly dispose of than associate with.

Italicized bits are straight from Street Magic

[Critias]

Threads like these always remind me why I'm so glad I only game with friends. I can't imagine a gaming environment that I'd feel comfortable playing in where my fellow players attacked me because I was evil or different from them.

So you and your friends don't role play. Got it. If it's fun for you, great!

[Cergorach]

is combination for VERY short lived PC.

I'm mostly concerned with the pixie aspect of the character:
SPLAT!
"What was that!?!?"
*turns on wind shield wipers*

Body 1 and Strength 1 characters make really bad Shadowrunners IMHO!

Threads like these always remind me why I'm so glad I only game with friends. I can't imagine a gaming environment that I'd feel comfortable playing in where my fellow players attacked me because I was evil or different from them. Similarly, if my GM was completely out to get me, I'd bow out. But since my circle are all friends who share GM roles, this has NEVER been a problem. Whenever I have played "evil", and this has happened quite often since we ALL were, it was tons of fun and a great diversion from the typical RPG morality. Then we'd get tired of it and play white knights again, but it was damn fun while it lasted. If everyone is on-board then you should be able to play whatever you want.

Your hitting the correct point here, IF everyone is on board. It's not the first time that in our group of friends there was some who needed to play a new character and picked a Oni Mage in an otherwise very standard AD&D group. Saying "NO!" outright wasn't very nice, but when out of game hints weren't understood, in game hints were used. With the eventual death of the Oni Mage, it was pretty much made clear that it wasn't acceptable. His next character was a backstabbing ninja in a party and group that didn't backstab in this particular game. On the other hand, it was requested (strongly) that I play something else then a Elven Fighter/Mage/Thief. As I found humans boring at the time and disliked Dwarves and Halflings, we eventually agreed that a centaur would be an acceptable choice by everyone. What I'm trying to say is that you don't create non-standard characters without discussing it with the group your playing with.

[Fatum]

So you and your friends don't role play. Got it. If it's fun for you, great!

There's hardcore roleplaying, and then there are typical OOC agreements: sharing loot, no backstabbing, no interparty strife etc. They can be roleplayed out or not, but there's nothing wrong about them.
Saying that a group does not role play because they don't enjoy playing out conflict between their characters is just arrogance of the "having fun the wrong way" type.

[Manunancy]

There's hardcore roleplaying, and then there are typical OOC agreements: sharing loot, no backstabbing, no interparty strife etc. They can be roleplayed out or not, but there's nothing wrong about them.
Saying that a group does not role play because they don't enjoy playing out conflict between their characters is just arrogance of the "having fun the wrong way" type.

I think that what Cirtias has in mind with is comment is that having a party with say
* a do-gooder ordained priest
* an unpricipled rogue with sticky fingers
* a self-centered mage who's only interested in his magical studies
* a big brute of a fighter with a taste for looting, raping, burning and crip roasted babies

which just happen to get along without conflict and do things together isn't roleplaying because none of the PCs is played anywhere close to in-character. It's the same sort of problem with the toxic pixie - there's no rational way that he is going to get along with a 'normal' group. Out of consevation instinct if not principle. Which makes it unsuitable as a player character unless the whole party is on a toxic mindset and agenda.

[Dr.Rockso]

I dunno, you could have some fun with it. I see it as a sitcom:

Alfie, the street Sam-"Oh, and someone watch Alberich. He s been muttering something about 'cleansing with holy fire' again..."

Al, above mentioned evil pixie l-"Aww, but Alfieeee......the great Atom just wants to love them!" *all this said in an adorable, high pitched pixie voice*

*canned laughter*

[Critias]

There's hardcore roleplaying, and then there are typical OOC agreements: sharing loot, no backstabbing, no interparty strife etc. They can be roleplayed out or not, but there's nothing wrong about them.
Saying that a group does not role play because they don't enjoy playing out conflict between their characters is just arrogance of the "having fun the wrong way" type.

Go read up on what a Toxic Black Mage should/would be like, and then try to tell me how they can fit into your average Shadowrunner group. This is even discounting the character build itself, and how useful it may or may not be, I'm just talking about their place in the setting, the shared fictional world where the game itself takes place.

It really seems to me like either (a) the group aren't a bunch of evil, power hungry, douchebags out to mutate metahumanity into something horrible, so the Toxic Black Mage won't be welcome, or (b) the group are a bunch of evil, power hungry, douchebags, and as such they'll knock out the ridiculously frail Pixie with a casual backhand and go turn him in for a million bucks.

It's one thing for a gaming group to occasionally fudge things a little bit, let some interparty friction slide without letting it turn into a slaughter, and generally "cut corners" here and there to maintain peace and harmony on an OOC scale among a group of friends. It's another thing altogether for a party composed entirely of CE Drow Assassins to suddenly get a Dwarven Paladin in their midst, for a terrorist cell of Alamos 20k operatives to take on a Changeling Troll as their new party member, or for someone to want to play The Punisher in a Marvel RPG where everyone else is a mob hitman.

If someone "doesn't enjoy playing out conflict between characters," then that hypothetical someone should put a little effort into making sure characters shouldn't be in conflict, shouldn't they? The GM and players should take a look at the game world, take a look at character sheets, and if someone's merrily pounding square peg into a round hole, maybe that character should be re-evaluated.

There's suspension of disbelief, and then there's just doesn't fit into the party. If you're constantly smoothing over the "just doesn't fit into the party" guys, well...at what point do you accept the fact you're no longer playing roles, at all, you're just some friends eating pizza and rolling dice to kill shit? I'm not saying there's anything innately wrong or un-fun with just being friends that are eating pizza and rolling dice to kill shit, you're the one assuming I'm being arrogant or elitist about it.

[Harbin]

In my opinion;

A shadowrunner can be morally questionable. They're runners, after all.

Toxic mages aren't evil, they're batshit.

More than half of them want to destroy the world or impose their beliefs on others (and I think it's somewhat obvious to say they wouldn't be debating it out on stage.)

Their metamagics are Corruption, Taint, and Leeching.

This would be the kind of person that would throw some radioactive waste into the shelter for orphans and corrupt the place's mana to make way for the new world of poison.

Not someone who would be a misunderstood person who was using their abilities for the forces of good. Someone who was doing that wouldn't be a toxic mage D:

[Dr.Rockso]

Couldn't all this be solved by just creating a bunch of awesome radiation based spells? By RAW, is it possible to use/create toxic spells without being a toxic mage? You wouldn't have access to toxic spirits or metamagic, obviously. Sure it would be toeing the line and would likely lead to an eventual evil little eco-terrorist. But one can argue that its flooding the municipal pool with sewer runoff that makes you toxic, not the spell itself. Running out of coffee and away from books, so stop me if I'm talking gibberish

[Manunancy]

There's nothing clearly stated in the rule on that regard - since magic can already affect the electromagnetic spectrum at visible light wavelengths (physical illusion spells), they should be able to create gamma rays which ar only anotherpart of the electromagnetic spectrum.

But there's a catch here : hard radiations screw up normal magic, which means you're likely to have a pretty horrible drain to overcome that problem. And for what purpose ? inflicting a slow, painful and degrading death while leaving behind a pollution of activated materials. Rather pointless in my opinion, unless you've got a very special mindset. A sort of mindset that's likely to let you slip into toxic magic sooner than later. At which point the drain will probably fall down to a more manageable level as the twisted magic of a toxic mage enables him to ignore, and even thrive, conditions that would ruin a normal's mage day.

[dirkformica]

The original poster never mentioned whether the group he was joining was an "average shadowrunner group." He DID however mention later that "my GM doesn't mind me playing a toxic mage and I don't think he was planning on bountying me either." A bunch of crazy, evil people running amok using the Shadowrun setting/rules sounds like a lot of fun to me with plenty of opportunities for role-playing of all kinds. I especially like the idea of a tiny Pixie buffing the party and unleashing Toxic spirits on the opposition. And I don't think it'd be badwrongfun if the players, evil and crazy as they may be, never ganked each other. Since the GM is fine with a Toxic, that seems to indicate he/she isn't planning to persecute unduly for their character choices either.

I would re-iterate that as a fragile support character, you'll need as much conflict avoidance as possible. That's why Infiltrating and Stealth will be important. The distinctive style aspect that was brought up (which not all GMs will use) could also be mitigated if you use the Physical Mask spell or Shapechange (Human.) They can help you avoid being remembered all the time as that "batshit insane tinkerbell motherfucker who unleashed Toxic hell on us" (assuming you leave any survivors.) You would also benefit from taking some skillpoints in the Influence group, either specifics like Con, or the whole group if you can afford it. You'll have high Charisma when buffed by spirits of man, so you might as well take advantage of it. This also helps when you can't just melt people's faces off (or if you want them to drop their guard BEFORE you melt their faces off.)

Prior to some of the recent FAQ and some discussion here I might mention the concept of being a Possession based Toxic tradition instead of a Black Mage. That could help with some of your frailty issues. But with race based augmented caps in play according to the FAQ I'm not so sure anymore. Depending upon your GM's view on the Possession rules regarding stat caps and especially the possible replacement of mental and special attributes, you might be causing more harm than good by possessing yourself and your fellow teammates. It could follow your mentor spirit a bit since you'd be deeming your fellow members as too weak to truly kickass without your spirits' help, however. It would also make everyone a lot scarier. it might be something to think about in any case.

[Ol' Scratch]

It all comes down to whether or not the GM is okay with it, and what kind of a setting they're playing in. Like a few others have said, not everyone plays Shadowrun the same way for crying out loud.

As to all Toxic Mages "having" to be moustache-twirling lunatics... naga, please. That's like saying all Hermetic Mages have to be antisocial nerds wearing a robe and wizard hat, all Techomancers have to be 10-year-old hobos living in the sewers, and all Shaman have to be Native American neo-anarchstists wearing full tribal dress. Personally, I think the original poster should be applauded for thinking outside of the box and being creative with his interpretation of an otherwise useless and boring path of magic. It's a little odd that he went all out with it by making him a Pixie as well as practicing his magic in such an unorthodox fashion, but there's nothing wrong with that if the style his group is playing is accepting of it.

[Manunancy]

It all comes down to whether or not the GM is okay with it, and what kind of a setting they're playing in. Like a few others have said, not everyone plays Shadowrun the same way for crying out loud.

As to all Toxic Mages "having" to be moustache-twirling lunatics... naga, please. That's like saying all Hermetic Mages have to be antisocial nerds wearing a robe and wizard hat, all Techomancers have to be 10-year-old hobos living in the sewers, and all Shaman have to be Native American neo-anarchstists wearing full tribal dress. Personally, I think the original poster should be applauded for thinking outside of the box and being creative with his interpretation of an otherwise useless and boring path of magic. It's a little odd that he went all out with it by making him a Pixie as well as practicing his magic in such an unorthodox fashion, but there's nothing wrong with that if the style his group is playing is accepting of it.

Hermetic mage and shamans are extremely wide definition that definitively should not be restricted - an hermetic mage (as 'non shaman') can range from a professional scientist to an obnoxious wiz-brat using his magic to get into girl's pants and get free booze. Which certainly doesn't even cover it all.
Toxic mages are a rather narrow substet which impose a skewed worldview from the get go - that's what let the toxics do things only them can. 'Toxic' and 'able to function in society' are to groups with very little intersection (mostly in the illgeal zones where shadowrunners are operating or close by)
In the case of the pixie, he's going the extra mile with a mentor spirit whose goal is to forcibly coerce metahumanity to some unspecified 'next stage of evolution', without any concern for the means used and the damage. It means the character's mindset will match that of the mentor. And that definitevely steps out of the zone where 'toxic' and 'able to function in society' overlaps.

[Ol' Scratch]

No, Toxic Magic is simply another tradition of magic. And, arguably, one broader than most of the ones selected by players (since they can come from any of those). The Toxic Mages described in Street Magic are one tiny, narrowly defined description of someone who practices Toxic Magic. Trying to say that all of them are identical to that one tiny subtype is ridiculous and unfounded. I can think of numerous examples of characters that would be classified as a Toxic Mage mechanically that aren't homicidal lunatics bent on world destruction, and a few examples have even been mentioned in this thread. They no more have to be lunatics than all Cyberzombies have to be cold-hearted psycho killers or all Blood Mages have to be maniacal murderers from Aztlan. I can easily see a Christian-based character who uses Blood Magic in a self-sacrificial way, for instance. And hell, practically every hero from the 4th World of Earthdawn were blood mages/adepts.

You're also not required to take a mentor for any tradition, and even if you do, they're a reflection of your beliefs and expectations, or at the very least open to the same varied interpretations as any other mentor is. Especially for more hermetic mindsets, as opposed to the more shamanistic ones that basically worship mentors as gods and demigods. But even then, someone in an Egyptian tradition is going to see their Sun mentor spirit completely differently than someone in an Amerind-based tradition. So why should toxic mentor spirits be any different?

Particularly in a setting where the GM is okay with such changes?

[The Jake]

These threads should never be entertained. They should be locked for the sanity of all the participants so we can all move on...

- J.

[Saint Sithney]

I think where I put 'Karma' I meant to put BP. Oops.

Also, I didn't know there was a bounty on toxic mages. My GM doesn't mind me playing a toxic mage and I don't think he was planning on bountying me either.

My plan was to run in the Astral all the time, dropping spirits for support. The increase willpower and charisma spells are going to be cast by spirits of man to support me when I want to summon or bind high level spirits.

Decrease logic is as close to an offensive spell as I've picked, but I think I'll change it to manabolt.

Sounds like a pretty interesting character.

I'd recommend though that you just get together with your GM and create a unique Tradition and Mentor Spirit which allows you access to the mutation powers and the spirits you like.. Otherwise Dumpshockers will hunt you down and yell at you until you character isn't the only thing that's RAW.

[Glyph]

The toxic mentor spirit doesn't bother me as much - if it's acceptable at their table, I'm not concerned with how it meshes up with what a toxic is like by RAW, or how a normal group of runners would react to the same.

The concept seems similar to a bunker rigger, only instead of a rigger in a bunker running drones, you have a comatose pixie running spirits from astral space. In most campaigns, there would be drawbacks to this in the form of mishaps with the pixie's meatbody (if you are going astral all the time, the odds should catch up with you eventually), or astral threats (the astral plane has its own dangers). With an easygoing GM, this character could function in his support role with minimal risk. But you have to ask yourself - if it does work out like that, will you be happy in the long run, with a character who almost never risks getting hurt and has minions doing all of the heavy lifting? Or will you wind up being bored?

[Ol' Scratch]

Like you said, how is that any different from a rigger or hacker who does the brunt of their work in safety from afar? Aethermancers are a very cool concept in my opinion and potentially a lot of fun, especially if the GM decides to address it; though not in a "I'm going to punish you!" way so much as a "this is cool, let's explore it" way. You could even make your sanctum fairly safe under most circumstances with minimal trouble. A Luxury Security rating on a custom lifestyle includes heavy wards and patrolling spirits, for instance.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just a big fan of taking unusual or useless rules and building concepts that make them work in new and interesting ways. I just think its wrong to chastise someone who's not trying to break the game or be a jerk about it just because he wants to try something unusual.

[Glyph]

He doesn't really need to pay lifestyle costs for magical security. He can set up his lodge, and some wards, on his own, and physical security is fairly easy, too, since a pixie can fit into places a normal metahuman can't.

I asked the question from my own perspective - I would find such a character unrewarding to play. Different strokes and all, though. Doesn't mean it's not a valid concept - I don't like playing hackers or riggers much, either, and there's nothing wrong with them. I do find the physical stats of 1 a bit cheesy, just as I would for a bunker rigger. At least for a pixie, those stats are slightly more plausible.

[WyldKnight]

The only thing that confuses me is why a naturally occuring process which in fact allows life to exist (how long would we last without the sun) is chastised by RAW. Wouldn't a mage able to summon spirits that could repair radiation leaks and explore uninhabitable locations be highly useful? I get by RAW most toxic mages are crazy but with a little GM fiat I don't believe its that big a deal to allow toxic abilities without the toxic mindset.

[Fatum]

The only thing that confuses me is why a naturally occuring process which in fact allows life to exist (how long would we last without the sun) is chastised by RAW. Wouldn't a mage able to summon spirits that could repair radiation leaks and explore uninhabitable locations be highly useful? I get by RAW most toxic mages are crazy but with a little GM fiat I don't believe its that big a deal to allow toxic abilities without the toxic mindset.

Frankly, I don't think such a mage would count as toxic. Being toxic inherently means turning from natural ways toward toxic ones, from creation to destruction, etcetera. It all kinda comes in a package.