[X] My Assistant

[last_of_the_grea...]

This is only my opinion and what I would rule as a GM (I'm very liberal as a GM).

1) Any bioware is available as geneware.

2) Bioware bought (through any means, be it a quality or nuyen) is still subject to the availability and level cap rules which are the same as for bioware. At character creation it better fit these rules or the answer is no. I acknowledge that there are qualities that can get you around these rules. Because I am liberal this is fair game.

3) One way or another your character will be challenged within the game.

I imagine Shadowrun Missions would be clear about which rulebooks are allowed to be used and if anything is excluded.

[Squinky]

As an example of synaptic booster transgenic stuff being possible, look up animal reaction times versus humans. There are definitely many creatures that can react well beyond the level 3 synaptic booster in my opinion.

[Brol_The_Mighty]

I fully agree. Humans move horridly slow compared to the animal world.

[Stahlseele]

Which is why humans had to invent guns and other stuff.
Do you know why there are animals that have been the same for millions of years basically?
Because there was no need for them to adapt and become even better than they allready are.

[Whipstitch]

Well, the problem isn't really so much a lack of raw processing power, but rather a lack of prioritization. Humans process an awful lot of sensory information in an awful lot of ways while also pondering all that dumb crap we worry about every day with our fancy ass brains. Meanwhile, a lot of the fastest critters alive are rather small and have a few relatively simplistic reflexes and behaviors that take precedence over everything else they do. For example, water shrews are some of the fastest mammals going-- high speed cameras have shown them to typically initiate attacks in under 25 milliseconds* when they're diving and something disturbs their whiskers! It's a combination of a hard-wired, instinctive behavior, limited sensory conflict (they are primarily nocturnal and operate almost exclusively off smell and whiskers when submerged) and small size-- water shrews weigh all of 15 grams, so they actually have a bit of a latency advantage over us "big" critters simply because they don't need as many cells sending information down the pipe before it hits the brain. The size thing is admittedly a tiny consideration when compared to the complexity problem, but again, when you're talking about such fast creatures, a millisecond here and there can mean the difference between an easy meal and escaped prey.


*Seriously, that is stupid fast. Freakishly enough though, shrews have nothing on flies and spiders. Reaction times are surreal once you get down to the insect world.

[Brol_The_Mighty]

I believe that the point being made was that there were animals that were fast enough to have 3 IP's, which obviously there are. I actually didn't know that about water shrews though. That's stupid crazy fast.

[Ascalaphus]

As an example of synaptic booster transgenic stuff being possible, look up animal reaction times versus humans. There are definitely many creatures that can react well beyond the level 3 synaptic booster in my opinion.

Well, the problem isn't really so much a lack of raw processing power, but rather a lack of prioritization. Humans process an awful lot of sensory information in an awful lot of ways while also pondering all that dumb crap we worry about every day with are fancy ass brains. Meanwhile, a lot of the fastest critters alive are rather small and have a few relatively simplistic reflexes and behaviors that take precedence over everything else they do.

The only way to be really fast is to be rather dumb and small. Small creatures experience less inertia, and creatures that have a limited set of behaviors choose faster.

You can't really transplant that kind of speed to metahumans without extensive lobotomy to simplify the brain process.

[Umidori]

Which is why I love Foamy, my lobotomized murder gnome. He fits in a backpack or large briefcase and actually rather enjoys such cramped spaces. They work in conjunction with sedatives to keep him blissfully unresponsive when he's not needed, which is most of the time. When the shit hits the fan, his handlers deploy him to kill stuff, which he primarily does by tearing out throats.

~Umidori

[Brol_The_Mighty]

Lol, sounds like a gnome Universal Soldier type.

[KnightIII]

I love munchkin characters. And I say this as a GM. After all, my players include a Doom Troll (Camoflage armor, 9 Body, Aluminum bones, rating 3 dermal plates, a riot shield and a helmet. Do you have any idea what it takes to hurt that beast? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) and a Nosferatu mage.

How do you deal with these loverly (not a mispel) characters made with "RAW" who cry when you slap em with a GM "no"? You remind them that anything they can do, so can the bad guys. And anything exceptional like that will get around and the bad guys will prepare for it. Nothing gets table agreed rules interpretation faster than going up against an enemy group thats just as nasty as they are.

So you're a suped up mutant troll whos body naturally produces a synthetic drug to which you are somehow only immune to the negatives of? *scoff* The Azzies have been breeding para creatures and metahumans like that for years. Secretly, of course. And your mission is to infiltrate the [City Name] zoo, where the corperate J has heard rumors of some new experimental super metas. Oh crap, ambushed by 6 freaked out super-drug-trolls? Tough luck chummer, roll initive.

[Brol_The_Mighty]

^This.

I have absolutely no problem with the GM pulling out the stops to give my team some good tough opposition. Even if its the same stops that I pulled to create my guy.

[Dumori]

Nor do I. Unless its done by the GM to the point of dickery but then who likes GM dickery?

[Brol_The_Mighty]

Too true. In the end, SR is about having fun. Regardless. It all comes down to what you and the GM can agree on, and what he'll let slide. Yes, we talk about RAW and RAI, but it mostly comes down to what's allowed. And anything that your GM allows you to do....will most likely come back to haunt you later (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[bernardo]

Lol, sounds like a gnome Universal Soldier type.

sounds like a dystopian pokemon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Dumori]

Too true. In the end, SR is about having fun. Regardless. It all comes down to what you and the GM can agree on, and what he'll let slide. Yes, we talk about RAW and RAI, but it mostly comes down to what's allowed. And anything that your GM allows you to do....will most likely come back to haunt you later (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But thats 90% of the fun in a game where every one is power-gaming (yes I do play games where I RP but my power-gaming games bring up way more questions) When every one is capable of holding of a lone star HTR team you can have some fun. We tend to play those games hard and fast.

[Ol' Scratch]

Yeah, it's really not that hard to "break the game" using the default rules. You don't have to resort to the house rules in the FAQ to do it. And, to be honest, it's far more impressive when you manage it without having to use any weird rules, interpretations, or kinda-sorta exceptions. The basics behind the Pornomancer (though it's grown to include some of the more iffy stuff over time) is a fine example of that.

[Stahlseele]

See Troll Bow Adepts.
See The Ultimate Mundane Climber.
See Mr.Lucky.
See Brick.
See Two-Hands-Revy
See Pornomancer.
See Mages dropping maximum overcast Stunballs.

[HappyDaze]

I believe that the point being made was that there were animals that were fast enough to have 3 IP's, which obviously there are. I actually didn't know that about water shrews though. That's stupid crazy fast.

You can't win an argument that RAW allows more than 2 IPs through mundane transgenics when you ignore the fact that RAW has no mundane critters with more than 2 IPs.

[Brol_The_Mighty]

My argument, was to show that RAW allows more than 1 IP through mundane transgenics. There's precedence to allow synaptic boosters through transgenics. That was my argument. The text states that you can take biotech as a transgenic. Which synaptic boosters are biotech. The text then suggests to GM's that they limit it to things that occur in the natural world. Which Synaptic Boosters does. It never states at the specified rating. Now, assuming that that's your interpretation, you also have to consider, that not every creature was statted out. In fact, most of the critters that are that stupid crazy fast, aren't.