Shape shifters and bounties Options

[Kithanalane]

Does anyone know where they discuss the bounties on sentient animals? More precisely Shape shifters?

[nezumi]

hrrrrmmmm... Companion? Maybe Paranormal Animals of North America? I believe Shadows of North America specifies where there are NOT bounties on them.

[Daylen]

probably depends on the nation.

[Mantis]

I wasn't aware of a bounty on shifters. I know there is on the infected. Running Wild has stuff on bounties for those and also lists which nations are friendly to sapient animals like shifters.

[nezumi]

CAS and UCAS are in the 'not friendly' category. I don't know if UCAS has a bounty on them, but if my memory of Striper Assassin is correct, CAS does.

[Kithanalane]

I remember hearing about a bounty on shape shifter in seattle I just can't remember where.

[Daylen]

I remember hearing about a bounty on shape shifter in seattle I just can't remember where.

probably had something to do with PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

[Fatum]

I remember hearing about a bounty on shape shifter in seattle I just can't remember where.

Are you sure? I don't recall anything like that...

[Red-ROM]

I think theres a mention of it in runners companion in the shape shifter section, but nothing specific.

[Saint Hallow]

In 1 of the shadowrun novels (Run Hard, Die Fast), the character was talking about how Canada didn't recognize some creatures as sentient. In the Paranormal Animals of North America... the Loup Garou and other creatures were listed as having bounties in some countries and there was flavor text of runner's posting on how hunting some of these things were right/wrong.

[AngelisStorm]

The Loup Garou is an infected.

[Rasumichin]

The problem with all of the older sources mentioned is that during the last 10 ingame years, the situation of non-metahuman sapients has changed for the better in a lot of places.
There's also no specific and up-to-date information about shapeshifter bounties anywhere, so it's all guesswork.

For North America, i'd expect the situation to be worst in Quebec and best in the NAN.

Quebec treats all sapient critters like animals, which does not automatically mean they issue bounties, but...Running Wild suggests it's about the least place you want to go as a critter.

There's certainly no bounty in Amazonia, Atztlan and Yakut (Atztlan and Amazonia have offered citizenships to all kinds of sapient critters for decades, Yakut is governed by shifters).
All tribally oriented nations are likely to have a similar stance on the issue, though critters such as centaurs or sasquatches seem to be integrated a lot better (they just seem to be much more curious about metahuman society than shapeshifter are and people will be more used to them).

Seattle would likely fall somewhere in between those extremes.
At least that's what i'd guess based on the sapients chapter in Running Wild.

In the end, the situation could range from everything between being hunted down like a rabid dog and being revered as a part of the local Awakened elite, depending on where you play and what kind of game you're headed for.

In other words : ask your GM to make something up that makes sense and works for your campaign.

[Draco18s]

probably had something to do with PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

SEA KITTIES~!

[Ol' Scratch]

I distinctly remember seeing rules for this, too. I'd check some of the 2nd Edition regional sourcebooks. I bet they can be found in there. I'd take a gander myself, but most of my books are stowed away in the garage.

[Kithanalane]

Well in this case I am the GM and I have given it a lot of thought and my thinking is this: The Vast Majority of shape shifters are born in animal form and live most of there lives in the wilderness where the law is survival of the fittest. Pair that with the fact that most shifters are also preditors, #1 I don't see alot of shifters wondering into populated areas unless they have major motivation. (ie. the stipper assasin novel) second if they were to venture into populated metahuman areas I don't see them concerning themselve with aclimating themselves into society beyond what would be reqiured of them to survive which would make them very dangerous creatures to have running around a populated city because while they may not necassarily kill for food they would'nt have any qualms about defending themselves to the death especially if there baser instincts get a hold of them which is why in my opinion there would be a bounty. Of course the amount would depend greatly on how common city dwelling shifters are and the frequency of a shifter related death is.

[GreyBrother]

I actually can see shifters that not only wander into the city and acclimate themselves, but also live there for some generations.

Life in the city has its own hazards but also merits. I read about whole wolf packs living in the suburbs in scandinavia [citation needed], why not a shapeshifter who does learn how to survive in a city enviroment. And maybe this shifter finds a mate and has some children. There is a chance those turn out to be shifters too so you have a second generation there, learning from their parents. Those are more likely to actually adapt and maybe - out of curiosity - try to mimic a human life.
It could be fun to roleplay a shifter who babbles around words because he thinks the human language isn't more complex.

Then you have countries like the Czech Republic, who willingly grant them citizenship. I think there could be something akin to a governmental program to actually integrate shifter into the general society.

[Daylen]

I actually can see shifters that not only wander into the city and acclimate themselves, but also live there for some generations.

Life in the city has its own hazards but also merits. I read about whole wolf packs living in the suburbs in scandinavia [citation needed], why not a shapeshifter who does learn how to survive in a city enviroment. And maybe this shifter finds a mate and has some children. There is a chance those turn out to be shifters too so you have a second generation there, learning from their parents. Those are more likely to actually adapt and maybe - out of curiosity - try to mimic a human life.
It could be fun to roleplay a shifter who babbles around words because he thinks the human language isn't more complex.

Then you have countries like the Czech Republic, who willingly grant them citizenship. I think there could be something akin to a governmental program to actually integrate shifter into the general society.

there was a recent history channel show that documented wild dogs that were generations wild living in cities.

[Dreadlord]

A scientific study of wild foxes showed that a mated pair with a mild tendency to tolerate humans at a closer range than normal would have a litter that was basically domesticated. In a SINGLE GENERATION! So, I think there may be more shifters in the population than people know!

[Rasumichin]

Life in the city has its own hazards but also merits. I read about whole wolf packs living in the suburbs in scandinavia [citation needed], why not a shapeshifter who does learn how to survive in a city enviroment.

I see foxes in Cologne all the time.
Strolling across the railroad tracks in broad dailight, hunting below the freeway exits, sneaking through the parks.
Cities have plenty of room for wild animals. Just move a bit into the outskirts. Many European cities also cultivate forests in the vicinity.
There's more and more animals from the wild adapting to a life in human settlements.

Also keep in mind that shifters don't turn into humans just for fun, it gives them specific adavantages over just being the average tough paracritter.
They are perfectly able to interact with society once they've got the basics figured out.
Running Wild mentions a pack of wolfs and wolf shifters, the alpha male having spent some time with humans in his younger years- of course, he teaches them some basic knowledge about metahuman society.

Then there's all those tribal communities living close to nature- they'd be the first metahumans a shifter would run into and would often have less problems with their animalistic nature, which would be a good starting point to acclimatize themselves.

Keep in mind that shifters are as smart as humans (or at least orks).
They could be uncouth and uneducated. but don't have to be.
And while they may have strong animal instincts, they could learn to control them- if it is possible to teach a dog to sit right next to a bowl of meat without gulping it down, a sentient wolf should be able live among humans without becomming a threat to everyone.

If a shapeshifter allready makes it into the shadows out of his own decision, he could behave more like some guy from a rural backwater than a wild animal.

[AngelisStorm]

Foxes are not wolves. (How do we petition for a "does not equal" symbol on Dumpshock?) They are known for surviving where their bigger cousins don't. (Much like coyotes, but even more so in many places.)

Thumbs! http://www.hookiedookiepanic.com/geist/comic.php?ID=68#

[Draco18s]

Thumbs! http://www.hookiedookiepanic.com/geist/comic.php?ID=68#

"I will give you both sooooo many dollars to not do either of those things."

Hahah, nice.

(Also: humanthropy, lol)

[Ol' Scratch]

Foxes are not wolves. (How do we petition for a "does not equal" symbol on Dumpshock?) They are known for surviving where their bigger cousins don't. (Much like coyotes, but even more so in many places.)

It's a good thing the game has Fox Shapeshifters then, eh?

There's lots of ways to explain Shapeshifters in an urban environment. Just because the majority of them live in the wild, that doesn't mean all of them do. Characters who become shadowrunners are very often the definition of "outsider" and "outlier." The number of Awakened in the shadows, for instance, greatly exceed the normal population ratio in any given area.

You may as well be complaining that the Human character joining a game isn't roleplaying properly because he's not a Corporate Wage Slave, since a large majority of Humans are! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Daylen]

I hear bears love going to cities to do their grocery shopping/foraging. I know Hawks live in many cities feasting on pigeons.

[Ol' Scratch]

I often see bears in circuses that come to town. And ones in city zoos. And every now and again there's a news report of a bear wandering into a populated area, too.

But none of that can be, because bears are wild animals. Thus the invisible, intangible force field surrounding all human habitations prevent them from getting anywhere nearby. Yessir.

Nevermind that Shapeshifters are not wild animals. They're sentient, intelligent, and adapative individuals who have the ability to transform into a metahuman, learn metahuman languages, and blend in with metahuman society. But wait, no. That simply can't be, because they ARE wild animals. Zomgz. Obviously their ability to transform into a metahuman has nothing to do with blending in with society. No, they clearly developed it to, uhm... have an easier time picking berries from a high branch or something? Yeah, that must be it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[nezumi]

Shifters are also almost exclusively large carnivores. Large carnivores, a subset of wild animals, do not live well in urban areas, and as a general rule of thumb, are escorted out or shot when found. Plus, as a general rule of thumb, large prey is less common in urban areas than it is in rural areas, begging the question, why would a shifter WANT to live here, where there's less food, more stress, the threat of being shot on sight in its natural form, and the requirement that it might just have to get a real job to sleep at night.

(But again, this doesn't apply to small shifters, like foxes, or shifters like eagles, which can live in space humans don't really use).