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> Moderation on Dumpshock, Should there be an appeals process?
Bull
post Mar 29 2010, 11:48 PM
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I should also note that as of this weekend, I stepped down from active moderation, at least for a while. I have too many other things to deal with right now, so I'm taking a break.

Bull
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ker'ion
post Mar 30 2010, 04:09 AM
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Perhaps a "Contact an Administrator" link at the bottom of the main forums page.
And the mode of contact for bans and warnings could be altered to "contact the offender by e-mail only".

Just trying to see if things can be simplified. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)
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Ol' Scratch
post Mar 30 2010, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Mar 29 2010, 10:26 AM) *
The point is that even after having the basic inadequacy of your moderator communication system brought to light repeatedly over a period of years, you still haven't done shit about it. And that's inexcusable. And I am going to leave again and talk smack about you on other forums. Because we aren't friends, you have faults, and you've made it incredibly difficult, hostile, and unrewarding to try to talk about them with you here.

What the Hell?

Yes, the forum software makes it very difficult to get in touch with people outside of the forum itself, especially if you're suspended or banned. But do you honestly think that's because the moderators have gone out of their way in some grandiose conspiracy theory to thwart your magnanimous attempts to fly off the fucking handle in a nerdrage? No. The creators of the forum software made it a pain in the ass in order to keep spam bots, junk mail, and -- yes -- nerdraging twats from harassing the moderators as well as the users in general. If everyone's email address was plastered all over the place, your junk mail filters would likely catch on fire from all the work they'd be doing.

Would it be nice if the board's general contact information were more up to date? Sure. Is it vital to the operation of a forum that's been operating in one form or another for over a decade now? Hell no. Especially since the vast, vast, vast majority of people who have issues that really need to be addressed aren't sitting on a self-inflicted ban for being a douche nozzle. And yes, sometimes it does feel like you're getting picked on when you're a poster who tends to be brutally aggressive in your posts, but what the holy fuck do you expect when you act like an asshole on a regular basis? To be showered with hugs and rainbows of happy happy joy joy feelings?

As someone who's had more suspensions than most (and likely to have another one after this post) for those very reasons, I think I know what I'm talking about, too.

But you know what? All that aside, attacking Fistandantilus and trying to accuse him -- him of all people -- of being anything other than one of the nicest people this forum has the pleasure of having on the moderation staff? The fuck is wrong with you? Sure, one or two of the current mods are petty jackasses in my experience, but individuals such as Fistandantilus and Adam Jury are probably the nicest, most level-headed, and non-reactionary people I've ever seen here. And having petty moderators around is par of the course on any large forum. But sticking with Fistandantilus, yes, he tends to be one of the people who performs a lot of the moderator actions, but that's only because he's more active than most of the others since he runs and plays in a number of the PbP games here. But to use that simple fact as an excuse to start insulting and trying to publicly embarrass someone who in no way, shape, or form is deserving of such abuse simply because you're nerdraging like the irrational little cunt you are? Seriously: What the fucking Hell is wrong with you?



(See you guys next week or something.)
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KCKitsune
post Mar 30 2010, 06:49 AM
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Rather than having an email address that can be spammed to High Heaven (like the Good Doctor said above), how about having a link on the main dumpshock forum page that can open up a web mail function. This way the banned person can contact a moderator and ask questions about the banning.
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Cain
post Mar 30 2010, 07:18 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Mar 29 2010, 03:36 PM) *
Thank you, you're right, there are definitely some valid issues here. We're looking at those now, including:
1)Admin contant, both Warning and function related
2)mods - #s. We've had mods come and go for a while now. We started a general "who's still up for this" a few days ago, so we'll see where that puts us first.
3) Reporting - More to show on the public side.


Don't forget notification changes. Both making sure those warned get an email, and that the mods can be reached for appeal.

QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 29 2010, 04:45 PM) *
Also, to address Cain's comment about our Mod Staff.

We currently have 16 listed Moderators. That number is a bit of a lie, however. Often, Moderators get busy with real life and step back from their duties. In the past, we've left them active, to allow them to pick up when things get better for them. Often, that doesn't happen though.

Of those 16, there are only 6 or so that are even semi-active on the boards, and only about half of those 6 are on regularly to handle regular moderation duties.

Bull


That makes sense. We don't expect you mods to be on 24/7. However, we do expect 24/7 moderation, which can only be achieved by having lots of mods active.

QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 29 2010, 04:48 PM) *
I should also note that as of this weekend, I stepped down from active moderation, at least for a while. I have too many other things to deal with right now, so I'm taking a break.

Bull

Which leaves you with five. Not enough to keep up with a board this size.

BTW Bull, good luck dealing with Real Life.
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nezumi
post Mar 30 2010, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 30 2010, 02:49 AM) *
Rather than having an email address that can be spammed to High Heaven (like the Good Doctor said above), how about having a link on the main dumpshock forum page that can open up a web mail function. This way the banned person can contact a moderator and ask questions about the banning.


And/or specifying with the e-mail address to include the word "dumpshock" in the subject, and creating a filter exception to any e-mail containing that word.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 30 2010, 11:54 PM
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It should go without saying that Doc's getting his Warning for his post as well. Keep personal attacks off the boards.
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Freejack
post Mar 31 2010, 02:42 AM
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Just a quick scan of the rpg.net forums, at the bottom of each there is a list of the mods for that specific forum. There appear to be 16 for each forum and 18 or 19 total mods and admins (ShannonA doesn't show up as a mod for instance).

Carl
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KCKitsune
post Mar 31 2010, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Mar 30 2010, 07:54 PM) *
It should go without saying that Doc's getting his Warning for his post as well. Keep personal attacks off the boards.

I'm sorry Fist, but I don't think that is fair to Doc. I mean some people are being asinine and he was calling them out on it. The people that Doc is referring to had WAY too high a standard for a fan run board.

I think they should be cursed at just so they don't get too big for their britches.
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Dread Moores
post Mar 31 2010, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 29 2010, 06:57 AM) *
And it's much less fun to post there. *pouts*


There's a number of us who would disagree on that point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: That's too short for its own good. No, I don't think it's less fun to post there. It's simply different. Though I'm not quite as uhh...aggressively motivated as some of the posters here seem to be, so I'm guessing opinons vary.

From my prior experiences with moderating for Bulldrek and whatever else over the years, I'd kind of agree that 5 seems like a low number for how prolific this bunch can be.
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ker'ion
post Mar 31 2010, 09:55 AM
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Just butting in here for another post...

Describing nerdrage, fandom, anger and general annoyance of the motivations, intentions and actions of others does not necessitate the use of constant foul language.

Can we not raise ourselves above the politics of our respective lands and show what the human race is capable of in terms of rational intelligent thought?

(If I need to translate this into a more easily understood wording, I can)
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nezumi
post Mar 31 2010, 10:47 AM
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As an aside, anyone notice that, with the title of "Moderation on Dumpshock", we're talking about moderators, not actually... you know, posters showing moderation?

Maybe off-tangent, but I think it's funny we're putting a lot of weight on the mods, and not so much on ourselves.
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KCKitsune
post Mar 31 2010, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 31 2010, 06:47 AM) *
As an aside, anyone notice that, with the title of "Moderation on Dumpshock", we're talking about moderators, not actually... you know, posters showing moderation?

Maybe off-tangent, but I think it's funny we're putting a lot of weight on the mods, and not so much on ourselves.

Hence the reason that I responded to Fist's warning to Doc Funk. I think the Dr. Funk was well within his rights to bitch at jerks who want everything and they want it now.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 31 2010, 04:49 PM
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No he was not.
Even if someone else is generally a not so nice poster, that does NOT warrant personal attacks.
Even if you call ma a nazi asshole, i am not allowed to call you whatever derogatory term i can make up for americans or whatever.
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Dread Moores
post Mar 31 2010, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 31 2010, 11:49 AM) *
No he was not.
Even if someone else is generally a not so nice poster, that does NOT warrant personal attacks.
Even if you call ma a nazi asshole, i am not allowed to call you whatever derogatory term i can make up for americans or whatever.


So, the verdict is, Dr. Funk bad, but Frank good? I'm really confused now. Can we get a running list of rules or something, or maybe a list of members that says who is "okay" by the community's seemingly wishy-washy criteria on that given day?

And yeah, I'm going to side with the previous poster. I think a whole lot of this could be self-moderated, if the users chose to do so.
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Ol' Scratch
post Mar 31 2010, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 31 2010, 11:49 AM) *
No he was not.
Even if someone else is generally a not so nice poster, that does NOT warrant personal attacks.
Even if you call ma a nazi asshole, i am not allowed to call you whatever derogatory term i can make up for americans or whatever.

You'd almost think I did get a warning. Oh wait, I did. From the moderator I was defending no less. But nevermind that, let's continue to rally to get me a warning. That, you know, I already got. Rabble rabble rabble!

QUOTE
And yeah, I'm going to side with the previous poster. I think a whole lot of this could be self-moderated, if the users chose to do so.

It is, for the most part. Has been for the longest time. And when the moderators do step in, the issue has usually already been dead for a while. Recent events being a specific exception to the norm.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 31 2010, 06:36 PM
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No, i saw that you got a warning. Everybody should get a warning for personal attacks. Yes, me too. Especially me.
And no, neither Funk nor Frank are, in itself, bad. Of course, they can both be pretty mean if they want to.
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Shrike30
post Mar 31 2010, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE
Welcome back; your last visit was: Mar 29 2010, 07:50 PM
Dumpshock Forums latest news: Moderation on Dumpshock

I've always been amused by the fact that whatever is getting talked about in the news/bug reports/feature requests/board discussions subforum gets kicked to the top as "news," but I'm beginning to wonder if it does our image any good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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pbangarth
post Mar 31 2010, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 31 2010, 03:47 AM) *
As an aside, anyone notice that, with the title of "Moderation on Dumpshock", we're talking about moderators, not actually... you know, posters showing moderation?

Maybe off-tangent, but I think it's funny we're putting a lot of weight on the mods, and not so much on ourselves.


Hear, hear!
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Draconis
post Mar 31 2010, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 31 2010, 12:48 PM) *
Hence the reason that I responded to Fist's warning to Doc Funk. I think the Dr. Funk was well within his rights to bitch at jerks who want everything and they want it now.


Really? Then by your logic I could go off on you.
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fistandantilus4....
post Apr 1 2010, 12:13 AM
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I'd like to point out that most Warnings take a day or two to go out because we generally wait for a consensus. Just so happens that we've all been on quite a bit lately.

Doc: Not that I don't appreciate the defense, but it would pretty much defeat everything you said if everyone wasn't treated equally, without personal bias. You know as well as I that different mods have different feelings about different posters. I don't mind Frank going off on me, as long as he does it within the ToS. Basically, no name calling or personal attacks. Sure there were things that were a bit borderline, but I've got a thick skin. When it's directed at me, I'd rather let it roll off. Frankly (pun intended), aggressive posters do themselves in.

QUOTE (stahlseele)
Everybody should get a warning for personal attacks. Yes, me too. Especially me.


That's pretty much it right there (especially the part about stahls getting it especially;) ). If we let personal bias or let blatant personal attacks slide, it sets a very bad precedent. Do I appreciate Doc putting up a defense for me? Helll yes. Could he have done it without personal attacks .... probably. Should he have. Yeah. But which would you rather post on; a board that enforces the rules evenly across the board (puns again), or one where mods pick and choose who has to follow the rules and who doesn't?
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Ol' Scratch
post Apr 1 2010, 12:20 AM
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Eh? I wasn't complaining about getting a warning. I knew I was going to get one from the start, obviously. I was just commenting on the follow-up posts about people rallying for me to apparently get even bigger warnings or something even though it had already been taken care of. Publicly at that.
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fistandantilus4....
post Apr 1 2010, 12:23 AM
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Well I was thinking of making picket signs, but that seemed a bit much.

Besides, "Down with Funk" is just too broad. Some innocent funkster might get offended.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 1 2010, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE
Should he have. Yeah. But which would you rather post on; a board that enforces the rules evenly across the board (puns again), or one where mods pick and choose who has to follow the rules and who doesn't?

Well, the accusation stands that there's too much of the latter going on.
But that's more or less normal. Mods are people too (i guess), so of course they may like certain people better than others.
Would we want dumpshock to be more strict like the CBT boards or maybe even the rpg.net boards? Hell no.
Would we like dumpshock to be more laxxx like the 4chan boards? Heck no! We want it to be fair. Not hardass, but fair.
And most of the time, the mods do a good job at that. I think. Even if Furrball up there is being mean to me on purpose (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ^^
But they are people too. People make mistakes. Especially 5 people trying to moderate 5000 other people on this board.
When not all adhere to their usual being awake time. Is there a single mod from europe? I don't think i know one of those.
So if i were to step out of line while all the mods are sleeping . . or whatever it is they do, then chances are good that they are going to react later.
If someone from the same time zone as the mods does this, probability alone that a moderator is online to see him misbehaving is simply bigger.
Also, i guess the mods are gonna be a bit more lax with people that have been members for several years who not often if ever crossed the lines,
than with someone who only registered his first posting yesterday. Simply because, like it or not, the mods had way more time to get used to the
old fart and his style of posting and maybe snarkiness too. So they might see him being his usual abrasive self and that new guy just stumbled in
and started picking fights with people!
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fistandantilus4....
post Apr 1 2010, 12:41 AM
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Personally I tend to cut a little more slack to a brand new poster than someone who's been around for a while. They should know better.

As to time zones, I'm at watch on nights currently, so I'm back in the morning for a little while, then the afternoon when I wake back up. Redjack is down at night, but Bull and Caine are around many nights.

As to mods from europe, no, not at the moment, sorry. But we do have night owls. Besides, as I've mentioned, usually warnings go out a day or two later, so the actual time matters little.
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