[X] My Assistant

[Bushw4cker]

If a character gets damaged by a ghoul's claw attack (And it causes Physical Damage) how do you determine if they become infected with HMHVV III virus?
Is there anything that can help protect a character from getting infected, besides wearing chemical seal full body armor?
Are there any antivirals that help against HMHVV III?
Any other thoughts or comments appreciated
Thanks

[Rotbart van Dain...]

It is possible to interpret the rules for diseases in Augmentation in a way that the very first resistance test is the infection test: If the character succeeds, he isn't infected. (the "the disease takes no effect" part)
And quite honestly, it's the only way not to have a 100% infection ratio on all diseases.

Of course, as HMHVV has a high penetration characteristic, any protective gear worn won't help at all and pharmaceuticals are ruled flat out – only implants and nanites do help… in fact, O-Cells are pretty much your only chance.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Any other thoughts or comments appreciated
Thanks

If a character gets damaged by a ghoul's claw attack (And it causes Physical Damage) how do you determine if they become infected with HMHVV III virus?
The rules for infection are in Runner's Companion, it works like any other disease but the HMVHVV has a HUGE penetration rating (which means 99% of the people are screwed).

Is there anything that can help protect a character from getting infected, besides wearing chemical seal full body armor?
Yeah, don't get close to them...

Are there any antivirals that help against HMHVV III?
No.

Now, HMHVV are Awakened viri. Which gives some hand wavium for the GM to allow that certain times people won't be infected despite all the odds. This should be made only for the first Ghoul encounter and to drive players paranoid.

[Summerstorm]

Hm. Maybe the Zeta-Interferon (Aug p135) helps? Of course only if the gm allows it, but i can cut down the power of an infection by half (Or make you imune to something if you are fast enough) and costs 900 bucks.

Also can we stack up something antiviral over 6 extra-dice so we can get over the penetration?

As i comment to the insane lethality of pretty much every disease:

I like to change the rules a bit more into a "battle" between you and the sickness:
After you tried to shake it off the remaining power of the disease doesn't get add to itself for the next round, but ROLLS itself up. That makes it possible for you to defeat the sickness after a while, if you have a consistent strong imune response and reflects the power of your body to adapt (but also shows that some diseases are powerful deadly). Some balancing may be required to account for extreme cases.

For example:
Joe Normal (Body 3) and Trollo (Body 9) both get infected by Vitas-3 (Where the hell where THEY?)
Joe: rolls 3 body after 12 hours and gets one hit: Power of vitas goes down to 5: he gets 5 stun and the sideeffects.
The disease rolls its 5 power and gets 2 hits: Next power is 7 (problems)
So joe gets to a hospital fast, gets pumped up with antivirals (rating 6) and Zeta-Inteferon. before the next test:
He now rolls 6 dice (3 body +6-3ap antivirals) against the rating 3 disease: 3 hits, no effect. He lives without problem.

Trollo rolls 9 dice and gets 4 hits: Power of Vitas goes down to 2. He gets 2 stun and the sideffects.
The Disease rolls 2 dice and gets one hit: Next time it will have strength 3.
12 hours later (Trollo just doesn't care) rolls again his body and gets the three needed hits: Vitas-3 just got owned by his natural imune system.

Overall this makes most diseases a LOT less problematic, but gets the most powerful ones (Like the HMHVV types) at least into fighting range. Someone with a high body (or expensive medical help) would have at least a nice chance to not get to live in ghoul-country ™ but still lose a bit of essence.

EDIT: Ah to not forget the balancing: To account for the metahuman going first the power of a sickness should get raised (for most entries) a bit. For example Malaria is laughably weak with this rules: Make it power 4 or 5. This will reduces by 1-2 two hits by a normal human and from there on the battle is on. A improved or very healthy human with meds still has no problems, like it should be.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Maybe the Zeta-Interferon (Aug p135) helps?

No, it doesn't – it's a pharmaceutical and those don't help by definition of HMHVV.

Implants and O-Cells are your only option.

[Garou]

What you should be careful is if you players get ghoul hunting. After all, Running Wild says that on the CAS and UCAS, ghouls are fair game, and are worth money.

If your players get there, apply the full contagion rules. Specially spellcasters and heavily cybered individuals will be quite afraid, after all, it eats away essence as well.

Other stuff i also use in my games: Live Ghouls are 1.5k each. dead are 1k. And to be able to do it, you need to have a License for it (Bounty Hunting/Hunting Lincense), so for each ghoul up for bounty, your SIN and License will be scanned by a rating 5-6 scanner, so delivery is a risk upon itself, unless you use a fence and loose a lot of money on the process.

Yeah, i don't think shadowrun should became a shooting game about targeting ghouls. As one of my players states: "Ghouls are People Too".

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The kind of people you want to see only covered in White Phospor, by RAW on HMHVV.

[FriendoftheDork]

Well since it is only when you take physical damage, just having alot of armor will help alot against Ghouls. No penetration= no HMHVV

[Rotbart van Dain...]

By RAW, it doesn't matter – HMHVV has Contact Vector.

Tag, you're it.

[AngelisStorm]

By RAW, it doesn't matter – HMHVV has Contact Vector.

Tag, you're it.

Na-uh. I was on base. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

[Dread Moores]

By RAW, it doesn't matter – HMHVV has Contact Vector.

Tag, you're it.

I thought Contact Vector still required damage to occur? I don't have the core book handy at the moment, so this is entirely from my poor memory.

[Stingray]

even VITAS IV (which killed millions of people) is easier to fight off..), but hey, that's RAW for u..
ghoul infection power is 8, not 6, so both examples (trollo and Normal) would be in deep ***

[Dragnar]

Whoever wrote the HMHVV III rules either didn't read the disease rules beforehand or simply didn't think them through.
By RAW, ghoulism is a lot more contagious than your regular zombie movie virus outbreak and would have led to the world coming down crashing and burning quite a while ago.
It's best to change that to a more sane chance of infection.

[AngelisStorm]

Yup. The whole "shoot on sight, no exceptions" policy to ghouls, which is how it would have to be according to RAW, has been discussed a lot of times here on the boards. Ghouls are the zombie plague.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Whoever wrote the HMHVV III rules either didn't read the disease rules beforehand or simply didn't think them through.

In addition to not reading the SR2 and SR3 material on Ghouls.

[FriendoftheDork]

By RAW, it doesn't matter – HMHVV has Contact Vector.

Tag, you're it.

Where are these rules anyway? Couldn't find them in the SR4 book where Ghouls are listed. No clear infection rules in RC either.

But if the OP is right, and it transmits through physical damage (as opposed to mere touch), then armor clearly helps.

And if not it calls for a house rule IMO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The toxin rules might be an indication, although it says it needs contact with the skin... if the skin cannot be touched then how can it transmit?

Edit: That poison attacks can easily work on armored targets is also kinda stupid.. I mean yeah if the body soaks the damage that's one thing, but how can a poison dart unerringly strike skin while a bullet will have to face the armor? Makes no sense.

I never really understood the ghoul rights in SR anyway. Why should cannibalistic flesh-eating monsters have rights? Ok if they were able to feed on animals or some kind of synthetic flesh and could control themselves, that would be one thing. Otherwise they're just zombies.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

No clear infection rules in RC either.

RC has the disease specified as per Augmentation rules on diseases.

[Stingray]

RC has the disease specified as per Augmentation rules on diseases.

Augmentation pg. 129. Diseases, Pathogens and other conditions.

[Sengir]

Rules for infections are in Augmentation, the stats for HMHVV are in Running Wild.


PS: And an easy way to avoid becoming a Ghoul: Reduce your essence to 1 or less, since you are only transformed after you have lost 1 point of essence to the virus and survived it...of course you will still be dead, can't please everyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Apathy]

What are the odds that some shifty runners have set up a ghoul farm in the barrens where they kidnap normal families and infect them, so that they can turn them in for the bounty? It'd probably be much lower risk than hunting ghouls in the sewers because by the time they're infected and dangerous they've already got the handcuffs on.

[Dread Moores]

What are the odds that some shifty runners have set up a ghoul farm in the barrens where they kidnap normal families and infect them, so that they can turn them in for the bounty? It'd probably be much lower risk than hunting ghouls in the sewers because by the time they're infected and dangerous they've already got the handcuffs on.

I'd think that's less of a runner thing to set up, and more of a syndicate/gang thing to cover. Although, I'm guessing the bounties wouldn't be very high.

[Dumori]

Also Ghouls are normally still sane. You'd have to hand them in dead as alive it will come back too bite you. On the bright side ghoulism is only infectious in first generation ghouls those born with it are perfectly safe to have a round.

[Doc Byte]

Any other thoughts or comments appreciated

Apart from "latent dracomorphosis for everyone"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Bushw4cker]

Thanks for the great comments

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I thought Contact Vector still required damage to occur? I don't have the core book handy at the moment, so this is entirely from my poor memory.

Just touching. Of course, if you are wearing a mil-spec armor or full body suit you are covered head to toe and just need to avoid damage. Then you just need to remember to desinfect your armor before taking it off.