Ambidexterity Edge Options

[Solstice]

Is this in the Companion? I don't see it anywhere.

Does anyone have the stats/blurb for this edge? How many points is it? What exactly does it do?

The char I'm making wants to use akimbo Savelette Guardians.

Also, how do you handle firing two weapons?

Thanks in advance

[Blackpool]

It's in the Cannon Companion, starts on 94. That pretty much covers everything. A little house rule that we've done is a special piece of cyberware, a upgrade chip for a Smartlink system to allow for two guns to be processed at once. We still don't do any other positive modifiers though and that little thing for the SL is really costly since not too many people would really use it.

[Solstice]

interesting house rule. What price did you guys put on it?

[Blackpool]

I don't have the "House Rule Book" with me at the moment, but I can guess from the listing in M&M...I'm going to say that it's five times the cost of the processor in the M&M listings. So a SL1 would be 5000 and SL2 would be 10000. Plus another induction pad must be installed. If the character has the range finder option, they need a second on of those. Using a SL2 it would end up costing 13,700 and .8 essence without the range finders. That's a significant jump from 3,500 and .5 essence. I'm pretty sure that's it, as for Availablity and Street Index...I believe it's 12/4 days and SI 3.

[Lilt]

I have considered Crosslink weapons systems before, the problem is that a more advanced smartlink processor wouldn't nessecarily help you aim two guns at once. Your brain might get confused between the crosshairs on your vision. If one strays off target it would be slightly random between correcting the gun that strays off-target and not just sending the other gun off-target in the other direction. You'd need to explain why having 2 laser sights wouldn't provide a bonus and your system would too, if you planned to fit it into the rules.

I'd reccomend at-least a more advanced image display (like an image-link) and staged quality ratings of ballistics processors from 1-4 to match the four levels of ambidexterity edge.

Some things that I have thought-of previously are: Ambidexterous Skillsofts (A skillsoft comprised-of samples from someone with the ambidexterity edge), and Crosslinks (partial skillwires slave one arm to shoot the same target as the other).

[Feyd 47]

I'm having fun with the ambidextrous edge at the moment myself. Got a street sam that's weapon of choice is a Dikoted Katana and Wakizashi (no rules for them, we just use the same stats as a cougar fine long blade knife). He's been semi-nick named "The Tin Opener" because of it.

Problem is that his style of combat (similar to Jikishin Nitouryuu) is pretty obvious, so he tends to get hunted by the Yakuza a lot whenever he uses it (the character is ex-Yakuza himself). That and the fact that he gets pretty messed up with guilt everytime he kills someone with it (has had way too many moments of accidentally choping his opponent in half).

[ShadowPhoenix]

I don't see why you couldn't with an enhanced Smartlink(let's call it SL3) couldn't give the character more information on which gun is which, like a colored coded designation, where each crosshair is a color selected by the user. so the right hand is red and the left blue, or whatever suits the user's tastes. just like having a Red and Blue Beam laser sight on different guns and using them Akimbo, you'd be able to correct the proper weapon using the color coding.

just my 2 :nuyen:

[Siege]

Truthfully, it's a matter of game balance rather than any real semblance of logic.

If SR 2060 can create and implant cerebral boosters, never mind fully functioning cyberware, someone somewhere would have created a means to duplicate the state of ambidexterity in a subject.

At the very least, reproduce a state highly similar, if not identical.

-Siege

[Shanshu Freeman]

[ShadowPhoenix]

that's a pity, in my world(I'm the GM! :D ) I allow anything that sounds feasible, with the proper research, and if it's really feasible, I totally allow it, a little cyberware b/r and install :D

[Siege]

I would imagine that a smartlink user could tweak his software, not unlike a 1st person shooter video game today.

The Targeting reticle could come in designer shapes and colors for the fashion conscious samurai, for example.

I agree: between the different colors, shapes and sensations provided by the simrig, a smartlinked character should be able to benefit from having two targeting reticles floating in his or her field of vision.

The problem is directing your awareness or focus -- in this case, splitting your focus between two equally demanding targets.

With that consideration, I'd argue ambidexterity doesn't actually solve the problem because all ambi allows is the comfortable use of either hand with the same degree of comfort and accuracy. As ambidexterous as a person might be, (s)he is still no more able to track seperate targets than the non-ambi person.

Someone posted house-rules months ago regarding the difference in firing two guns at the same target (ambi would apply) versus engaging two entirely seperate targets (ambi helps, but not that much).

-Siege

[L.D]

Then just throw in an encephalon and you're home free. :D

[ShadowPhoenix]

yeah I was thinking about that encephalon for that as well, and that well, I think would in addition to ambi and the SL-3 mod would make focusing on multiple objects much easier, could you then use the task pool benefits towards your combat?

[Siege]

My point is that yes, theoretically it's quite feasible -- however, most GMs will nix the concept because of game balance concerns.

If you don't object to the game balance concern:

Ambi-chip
.25 essence, 5,000 :nuyen:

Ambi-wetware (includes a re-wiring of the neural synapses)
.3 bio, 7,500 :nuyen:

Either option functions as the Ambi 6 Edge.

-Siege

[kenji]

well, even eliminating the brain's preference for one hand over the other, you've still got the problem that humans aren't really good at multiple-focal-point tasks. give em one thing to focus on, and even with multiple ways to manipulate stuff at the focal point, they're ok. but as soon as you need to focus on two points simultaneously, the brain has problems.

oh snap, that Encephalon thing does exactly that.

but how to mangle the rules system to reflect/balance this?
use task pool? or just nuyen&essence one-time-cost?
i like the bigger processor idea. it's like a minicephalon gets subbed in for the standard SL proc, giving you the ability to double focus, for specifically this task.

[Shanshu Freeman]

if you're shooting at the same target with both hands, I think there should be less focus/concentration concerns

[John Campbell]

Food for thought: As far as I can tell, there's nothing preventing the spell Enhance Aim from being used with two guns at once.

[CoalHeart]

Actually this just reccently came up in one of our games.

So I would like some serious help with this thanks.

So Lets say we have a Shadowrunner named 'The man with Two Left Hands' or Lefty for short.

He has a no smart gun.

if he had the Edge of Ambidexterity at what level what would his TN's be?

No edge
4 (base) + 2 (Dual Wielding) = TN 6 First gun
4 (base) + 2 (Dual Wielding) + 2 (second gun) = TN 8 Second gun

2 point edge

4 (base) +2 (dual wielding) = TN 6 for first gun
4 (base) +2 (dual wielding) + 1 (second gun) = tn 7 for second gun

4 pt Edge
4 (base) +2 (dual wielding) = TN 6 for first gun
4 (base) +2 (dual wielding) = TN 6 for Second gun

6pt Edge

4 (base) +1 (dual wielding) = TN 5 for first gun
4 (base) +2 (dual wielding) = TN 6 for Second gun

8 pt edge
4 (base) +1 (dual wielding) = TN 5 for first gun
4 (base) +1 (dual wielding) = TN 5 for Second gun

10 pt Edge
4 (base) = TN 4 for first gun
4 (base) +1 (dual wielding) = TN 5 for Second gun

12 pt edge
4 (base) = TN 5 for first gun
4 (base) = TN 5 for Second gun




Do I just have this all wrong, or am I just not understanding the book?



PS we also apply some edges as purchaseable Post Cgen. This one in particular costs 4 karma per point, or 8 karma per level of usable edge.

[Kagetenshi]

You have it wrong.

0 point:

Gun1: 4+2 (dual wielding)
Gun2: 4+2 (dual wielding)

2 point:

Gun1: 4+1 (dual wielding-ambidex)
Gun2: 4+2 (dual wielding)

4 point:

Gun1: 4+1 (dual wielding-ambidex)
Gun2: 4+1 (dual wielding-ambidex)

6 point:

Gun1: 4 (dual wield and ambidex cancel each other)
Gun2: 4+1 (dual wielding-ambidex)

8 point:

Gun1: 4 (dual wield and ambidex cancel each other)
Gun2: 4 (dual wield and ambidex cancel each other)

~J

[Solstice]

Kag is right....I've been through it ad naseum since my char is using this now.

From my perspective:

Ambidexterity especially the 8 point edge would not give you the ability to focus on two targets at once. If your ambidextrous, you still wouldn't be able to write two different sentences at once, not without some considerable difficulty IMO. The encephalon may negate that, not sure. Or maybe if your using an active soft with one hand and a natural skill with the other such as forcing a mag lock (Electronics, Activesoft) with one hand and patching up a wounded comrade (Biotech, natural) with the other.