Most book for your buck? Options

[Pepsi Jedi]

So I'm getting back into Shadowrun after a pretty good Hiatus. I had most of the 1st edition stuff, the 2nd edition stuff but only really got the base book for 3rd. I was playing White wolf, Palladium and Star wars for the past few years.

Was in the store and saw Shadowrun 4th anniversary edition and picked it up. It really reminded me why I love the game. The art was excellent, the fluff great, the lay out spectacular. Really a high high quality item.

So.. I got 'hooked.'

I have SR4Anniversary edition.
I also have picked up

Runner Havens
and
Runner's Companion


I'm not exactly rich, and there's 12 other books already published.
Wife has given me resource allocation to purchase 2 more books for Easter.

You guys seem pretty knowledgeable about them so I thought I'd ask you.

What are your faves, what has the most USE for the price, and which two I should pick up next. and 'why'?

[GrimWulf]

Hmmm 2 books?

I personally would be looking at two of four, probably going with the first two.

Arsenal - Armor/Weapons/Gear/Vehicles/Additional combat rules
Augmentation - Cyber/Biowares. Gene/Nanotech
Street Magic - All things magic
Unwired - All things matrix

The first two are more likely to be used by any character, where the last two are much more focused to certain types of characters

[darthmord]

I'd go Street Magic & Augmentation simply because those two cater to the widest audience and also the most common character types.

Yes I know Hackers are useful but honestly, they just don't have that *WOW* factor that an augmented Sammie or a well-skilled Mage has. Not to mention that Unwired doesn't help the Matrix rules nearly as much as Augmentation or Street Magic help their respective areas.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah right now I've sorta boiled it down to 4

Arsenal
Augmentation

Feral Cities
Running wild

I like the gear books. They look 'useful' for people. But I loved the old "Paranormal Animals Of North America" (( and Europe)) like cake and the concept of Feral Cities interests me. Thing is there's no game store here for me to flip though any of them and.... well some books look great on the cover but once you get inside they're not.

So I'm wary.

[Neowulf]

Arsenal is a must have for any group, the gear inside is usable by anyone and the environmental rules let you expand beyond the biosphere of the inner city.

[GrimWulf]

Do you need hardcopy? The PDF's are much more economical. Could probably pick up four books.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I don't "Need" Hardcopy. In fact I have an Ipad showing up on Monday (( No Frakin' Saturday delivery here)) And plan to load all my 600 RPG pdfs up on it. The Ipad itself is why I'm getting "Allowed" money from the wife instead of just buying things. Turns out Ipads aren't cheep. Who knew.

I just 'like' hardcopy. I've got about $12K in hardcopy RPGs. I collect as well as play.

[Neowulf]

Prefer hardcopy myself, but after purchasing the entire rifts line over the years plus SR 2 and 3, the cost savings of PDFs for SR4 became something of a requirement. I'm hoping the nook we're getting this summer will work as a decent enough substitute.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Go Ipad man. Not as dedicated or narrow as the Nook.

I'll tell ya all on Monday if the PDFs work right. I have SR4A on PDF too

[BookWyrm]

To be honest, I haven't really been disappointed so far with Shadowrun. Granted, I do factor in the increased cost of the books, but the overall quality (especially with SR4A) has been worth it. AND, this is a point with me, that any mistakes, misprints, eroors, ect. are quickly gone over and corrected with an Errata.

No system is perfect, despite what anyone says. If it succeeds to entertain, then it has accomplished what it was meant to do. If not, then the buyer has the choice to move on to something else. I myself rarely buy reprints or 'updated' books because I have done so before and discovered that I payed at least 1.5 times as much for a book I already had, with the same info that was in a previous edition. And trying to sell said prior edition to make room in the series is, at best, problematic.

Like Pepsi Jedi said, I don't "need" hadcopy. But I'm old-fashioned that way. I like the heft & feel of a bound book in my hands, the scent of a freshly opened tome, the soft 'crackle' of the spine when the tome is first opened.

I love the tech books, mostly because I've always beenfascinated by up & coming tech, even when I was little (I clearly remember watching the long night my father had to work, at Grumman, helping to get the Lunar Excursion Module ready, and also watching the moon landing on TV--when it first happened). But I also love the SR Magick books, becauseof the seed of realism that it has (Mages cast a spell, they take Drain! Magic always has a price!).

Until Shadowrun stops being entertaining to me, I'll keep reading.

[Sengir]

As far as rule books are concerned, Arsenal undoubtedtly gives you the most for your money - not just guns but also vehicles, electronics, drugs, briefcase rockets...

OK, so just one more book to choose...
- Augmentation provides a huge load of cyber and bio, certainly useful for everybody except awakened and emerged characters
- Feral Cities is nice if you plan to do runs off the beaten track, or want background info for those places
- Running Wild...well, I love the book but when you have to be picky, do you really need 893745 critter stats? Of course if you want to play an infected or non-human character (since you already have RC), it becomes a must-have.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Does Running Wild have any of the shadow talk about the critters and what not like the old Paranormal guides did?

I'm pretty sold on Arsenal now...so I just gotta pick the 'other' one.

[Dread Moores]

Yeah right now I've sorta boiled it down to 4

Arsenal
Augmentation

Feral Cities
Running wild

You mentioned looking for shadowtalk regarding creatures like the old Paranorm Critters books. If that's what you're looking for, I'd recommend going with Augmentation and Arsenal. There's bits and pieces of shadowtalk all throughout the book. If you're looking for one page per critter, with shadowtalk for that critter? Well, then Running Wild can wait. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed both Feral Cities and Running Wild. But for immediate usefulness now, I'd recommend the top two.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Seems to be the prevailing thought. Arsenal, then Augmentation.

Hurm. are Feral Cities or Running Wild effected by that 'No sell right now" Thing? I don't want to miss my chance either.

[Aerospider]

- Running Wild...well, I love the book but when you have to be picky, do you really need 893745 critter stats? Of course if you want to play an infected or non-human character (since you already have RC), it becomes a must-have.

Why is RW mandatory for playing infected/non-human characters? What doesn't RC cover?
I've been ignoring RW for some time now on the grounds of it being a luxury rather than a necessity, but I have a nosferatu in my home game so should it actually be my next book?

[Ol' Scratch]

Arsenal is definitely the way to go. Literally everyone benefits from that book in one way or another; GM and player alike. Augmentation comes in second as even most magicians will consider an implant or two. Then comes Street Magic as it not only presents options for what is arguably the top preference for many players (in the form of either adepts or magicians), but offers lots of common or plot-important threats and magical security measures and countermeasures. This is unlike Unwired where hackers and technomancers are the only ones who benefit from it, and they also happen to be one of the least popular character options (but if this is different in your games, it should jump up in priority). I'd instead go with The Runner's Companion after Street Magic. It's similar to Arsenal in that everyone can benefit from it, but it contains more outrageous and secondary options compared to books like Arsenal or even Street Magic.

If you don't have all of the above books, however, wait on ones like Running Wild. They're useful, but nowhere nearly as much as any one of the books listed above. Even Unwired is likely to be used more by the group and GM as a whole. It certainly has been in my experience; statting your own critters is easy compared to coming up with the various rules and options in these other books, and is something you still have to do anything with NPCs. So it really doesn't help out that much at all.

After that, the various setting and sourcebooks that come into play, and it's pretty much pick-and-choose based on what kind of games you prefer to run. No one can really tell you which ones are more useful; you have to make that decision on your own. Unlike the above books. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I mean, even if you run a specific niche game that's detailed in full in one of these tertiary books, any one of the main sourcebooks above will still be more useful for everyone involved. By a very long shot.

[fistandantilus4....]

Like Pepsi Jedi said, I don't "need" hadcopy. But I'm old-fashioned that way. I like the heft & feel of a bound book in my hands, the scent of a freshly opened tome, the soft 'crackle' of the spine when the tome is first opened.

QFT

The upside to Augmentation is that it has a table covering all of the cyber and bioware that I find incredibly hepful.

Arsenal has extra goodies besides just guns, including chemicals, new tools (including manatech), martial arts, and a slew of new vehicles.

Street Magic is good bones, but only if you're going to be playing a dedicated mage (in which case it's pretty much essential). It doesn't do a whole lot for those out side it's main interest, besdies the GM, and including magical security and threats.

Unwired is pretty much the same as SM above, but with hackers, and a bunch of stuf for updating the tech level of the '70s.

Runners Companion I love beecause it gives you so much more for making characters, including Group contacts, new qualities, new metatypes, and clasifying old ones, etc.

These are all "crunch" books of course. For "fluff", adding material to the setting, I really enjoyed Runner Havens, and found a number of things I could add to my game. Same with Vice although I'm still working through that one, and it's going to be harder to get ATM.

[The Dragon Girl]

personally I recommend, since you're a collector, picking up Vice, since theres not going to be a reprint


otherwise augmentation and street magic

[Draco18s]

personally I recommend, since you're a collector, picking up Vice, since theres not going to be a reprint

What is Vice, anyway? I've seen mention to it, but that's it.

[Ol' Scratch]

What is Vice, anyway? I've seen mention to it, but that's it.

Basically, it's a sourcebook about the underworld and crime in general.

[Draco18s]

Basically, it's a sourcebook about the underworld and crime in general.

Ahh. I'll recommend it to my group then.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Do you need hardcopy? The PDF's are much more economical. Could probably pick up four books.

I agree completely. Carrying a laptop vs. 40 lbs. of books is also an added bonus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

fistandantilus4.0 is spot on with his suggestions, those books will get you going very easily.

[fistandantilus4....]

I agree completely. Carrying a laptop vs. 40 lbs. of books is also an added bonus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Yeah but it doesn't smell the same. The pages don't feel the same. And who ever heard of curling up with a good laptop on a lazy afternoon!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(Thanks for spelling my name right though. My old screen name was Bob3.0;) )

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I had Sr4A, and Runner Havens. I got Runner's Companion when I found it pretty cheep on Ebay.

I posted this thread and got alot of 'Arsenal and Augmentation" So I ordered those. They're slow arriving though. I've since picked up Running Wild as well. I've always loved the para-critters.

I hear ya about picking up vice. I think that might be my next acquisition, for that exact reason. Small print run, pulled from shelves, unlikely to be reprinted. I DO collect so that will probably be next. (( the review thread is pretty nice too)).

Our group doesn't do much in the Matrix. Infact we usually have an "npc' Hacker to take care of that aspect. And we're actually lower on mages too.

So..

Have

SR4a
Runner Havens
Runner's Companion
Running Wild

Ordered (( Presumeably in the mail))
Augmentation
Arsenal

Planned next: In rough order... dependent on finding good non inflated prices online.

Vice (( For collector value, and the review looks nice))
Seattle 2072 (( Another pulled from shelves and apparently not as easy to find.))
Street Magic (( To give added options if someone DOES decide to go the mage route.))
Feral Cities
Unwired
Emergence
Corporate Enclaves
Ghost Cartels
On the Run


As a side note, I'm not against PDFs. I've got over 500 on my Ipad and the SR books look nice on it, but yeah I 'collect' as well as play so this thread was mostly for books to buy and have 'In hand"

[fistandantilus4....]

If you're collecting, there are definitely some old ones I would reccomend, mostly for the fiction pieces or art.
Prime Runners
Virtual Realities
Cybertechnology


Some others were just great books as well, that IMO added a lot to the setting:

Lone Star
New Seattle
Sota:2063/64
Shadows of Europe
Target: Awakened Lands
Target: Smuggler Havens
Dragons of the Sixth World
Target:Matrix
Fields of fire
Underworld

Obviously most of these are quite dated, but a lot of the fluff within is still relevant, especially for ma history persepctive, or isn't really duplicated anywhere else. They're also great reads.