The Dwarf Affect Options

[MatrixJargon]

So I noticed something rather peculiar as of late. Now i've been running Shadowrun for awhile now, not as long as many of you, but a few good years. I've played in more third edition campaigns than I can directly recall (with only two or so of them actually completing a coherent plot) and four or five fourth edition campaigns. In all of this time, I've only played with a Dwarf PC is two sessions. One was a guest player, and the other was that same player returning to our group as a temp GM and decided to use the same character as a GM character.

I haven't played a single fourth campaign in which one of our players played a dwarf. (I don't particularly recall playing many with trolls either) and it just stunts me as to why. The majority of players I come across play humans or elves, in fact you didn't see much else until I started playing an ork (and i've played one in every campaign since). Now, in our current game, we have a human, two orks, and an elf; with another human player contemplating joining us.

Does anybody else have their own Dwarf Affect? Races they just....never see in their groups?

[nezumi]

Because you don't play with number-crunchers.

Elves have the advantage of PR. They're the uber-characters in LotR. They were fantastic in D&D. Humans have the advantage of being... us... more cyberpunk, and much cheaper.

Dwarves have the worst PR. They're like people, but stumpier, uglier and smell worse. Who wants to play that? But they have the best ROI. In groups of number-crunchers, dwarves are very common. (For SR3. Not sure about SR4. Probably never worth it in SR1-2, because they're priority A.)

[fistandantilus4....]

Was it Target:Matrix that had some shadowtalk about metahumans playing different races in the Dawn of Atlantis game, where humans tended to play elves, orks played humans, and trolls played trolls, or something like that? Like nezumi said, they simply don't have the kind of flair in SR that you'd associate with dwarves from other games. Interesting too, if you look at the demographics numbers presented for SR vs the raves most commonly played in the SR setting.

[TBRMInsanity]

I agree with nezumi on this. A lot of players want to play "good" characters and don't want to play "fun" characters (this is the whole roll playing vs role playing argument). I do have a Dwarf in my latest campaign, I don't have any other metahuman though (granted we are running in Asia where Metahuman racism is uber-high). Personally I tend to play either a goblinized or human character (I never liked elves or Dwarves). That is just my personal preference though (and not number-crunching).

[Squinky]

Elves never have interested me.

I always want to play a Dwarf or Troll, but I have trouble picturing them in a real world environment. I'm fine with those kind of races in other games, but Shadowrun has more expected realism for me.

Ork is where I usually end up, or human.

[Mantis]

I've got one player who frequently plays dwarves but he's it. Everyone else usually plays humans with the odd elf or ork thrown in. Not too many trolls either. This has held true through out all editions (yes I've had one constant player for over 20 years. Amazing isn't it?). This player is in fact the most likely to play an ork, dwarf or troll and yes he's a number cruncher too.

[fistandantilus4....]

If you think about it, elves have the Tirs and immortals, orks have persecution and MOM, as well as orksploitation. Trolls have things like the Spikes and the Sons of Sauron, not to mention goblinization (the book Changeling as an example).

Dwarves have ... Arthur Vogel.

It's not just the players that are under utilizing dwarves. Hell, about the only things they've got is a little spot of land in Europe that doesn't get much attention, a bad stereotype as tech guys. and they got kicked out of the ork underground that they helped make.

Screw orks, dwarves are the ones that are getting the bad end of the stick in the sixth world.

One last thought - Dwarven characters from novels : 1- Fixer/Johnson that lead the team in Shadowboxer before getting killed. 2- Dorky "Fantasy Throwback" dwarf with an axe in the latest Kenson books (but in said dwarf defense, the series was equally 'Dorky' all round IMO.

Any others?

[kjones]

The dwarf affect is stereotypically grumpy and alcoholic.

Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean dwarf effect?

[Medicineman]

out of my 25 Chars only 1 is a Dwarf
everything else is evenly spread (Orks,Trolls,Humans,Elves even Hobbits and Metavariants like Nartaki or Fomori)
I'm not really fond of Dwarves and even Numbercrunching is secondary for me if I don't get a positive Vibe at the beginning

he who dances with rather long Legs
Medicineman

[Bushw4cker]

I've had few players play dwarfs over the years, one was ex. prostitute turned Shadowrunner, she was in campaign for quite a while then recently retired.

[Machiavelli]

We only had some random tries to establish dwarf-chars, but after the first session of dwarf-jokes, everybody stopped playing their char. immediately. That is definitely no matter of their stats, because these are quite good. It is more about the feeling being everybody´s joke.

[Nifft]

I agree with nezumi on this. A lot of players want to play "good" characters and don't want to play "fun" characters (this is the whole roll playing vs role playing argument).

That argument is madness.

My characters are all always both!

The dwarf affect is stereotypically grumpy and alcoholic.

Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean dwarf effect?

Glorious spelling flame.

Cheers, -- N

[pbangarth]

Most of the characters I play these days are dwarfs. From a min-max perspective, I like the particular Attributes that are boosted and that no attributes are hurt. From a role-playing aspect, I like the lack of attention they get. People fear orks and trolls, and they disparage or envy (or both) elves.

[Pepsi Jedi]

What's funny is that the fluff in the books say that the Dwarves are the most accepted of the metatypes after humans. And that dwarves get 'positive' sterotyping as 'Hard working" "Trust worthy" "Dedicated" and "Smart" and that while some humans will be asshats no matter what, that dwarves get less of that than the other metatypes.

I personally don't play dwarves. I"m 6'3" IRL and I feel sorry for short people. Come to think of it. I don't' think I've ever played a human in Shadowrun. Elves. Night Elves, Orcs of different metavariants, normal orcs, trolls. I don't honestly think I've ever went white bread normal human before. lol.

[Emeraldknite]

I have been running SR well...Since first edition. I remember the day they opened the box at the Complete Strategist. Thank you Larry for convincing me to buy the game. But, anyway....I have ran Shadowrun for 20 years. I have seen one player that I have ever ran for play a Dwarf. Well make that 2 players, one played the gnome variant when that came out. I have had maybe 4 or 5 NPCs that were Dwarves. I think the thing is that they just get over looked.

Trolls and Orcs no one plays either. I have had lots of NPCs that were Trolls and Orcs (My Favorite being Krupp (Orc) and Vandemar (Troll) Gaiman fans will recognize those names) Everyone seems to just want to play Elves and Humans. I think we need to boost the PR on the Dwarf and bring him up there with everyone else. The actually have decent stat bonuses. Most Rigger portraits I see are Dwarves. What gives?

Lets Stand up for our Dwarven bretheren and give them the respect that they deserve!

[Muspellsheimr]

Across all games, all systems, I think I have played an elf twice.

In a random D&D game (attributes, class, race, gender, age, starting level, etc - all randomly generated) I played a dwarf.


Other than that, I play human. I often play with racial templates, but the base is always human.

That being said, I have seen two or three dwarf PC's in Shadowrun games over the last 3 or so years (keep in mind we periodically change systems, so not all games in that time have been Shadowrun). I am unsure how many dwarf characters I have seen played in other systems, but I don't think much more.

[nezumi]

One last thought - Dwarven characters from novels

Or illustrated in the books. The SR3 main book had the dwarven drone rigger with the goofy glasses, the dwarf(?) raven shaman who looks like she just got rolled out of a dumpsters, and the dwarf PI - the best of the lot, except who ever plays a PI?

Then you move on to SR4 and... oh god, I'm sorry, poor dwarves... first thing we see is that dorky dwarf hacker who looks like if we left Helen Keller to dress herself in a clown shop.

[Tanegar]

My first Shadowrun character was an ork. I had a blast with him.

Most of the characters I play these days are dwarfs. From a min-max perspective, I like the particular Attributes that are boosted and that no attributes are hurt.

Was the dwarf stat line changed in 4A? My book has them getting -1 Reaction.

[crash2029]

I usually play orks. I like orks. I don't play elves because of too many years of playing with my "elven supremacist" Dad. I don't often play trolls because as I make them I almost always feel munchy and I don't like that. The reason I don't play many dwarfs is because I have trouble visualizing hand to hand combat with them. I admit it is silly but there it is.

[Ol' Scratch]

I absolutely love dwarves and orks. I don't care about their costs; their flavor is awesome. I play them and humans far and away more than any other metatype, with trolls coming in a distant fourth (which, sadly, is mostly a number-crunching decision; they're just so damn expensive to play and thus I have trouble making my concepts work since I run out of points way too quickly). I rarely have a reason to create an elf. Not because of their costs; they come close to balancing out with their perks (especially since I tend to play charismatic characters). It's just because they don't have a lot of interesting flavor. They're just assholely humans with long ears who need to eat a sandwich. I think I've had two concepts over the years that were elves, and one was "forced" since everyone was playing a member of the Ancients. And even then I was playing a self-hating elf.

Anyway, dwarves rule. They do get underplayed in general, but I firmly believe that it's because people have complexes about being short in their fantasies. Their loss though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But yeah, in my experience trolls are a lot more rare. But as mentioned above, that's because I'm one of those outliers who actually plays dwarves on a regular basis.

[pbangarth]

Was the dwarf stat line changed in 4A? My book has them getting -1 Reaction.

You're quite right. My bad. I just overlook that issue, what with both magic and tech providing common aids that help Reaction, it rarely is a deciding factor for me. The bump to Willpower is the most important for me, then Body and thereafter Strength.

[D2F]

I think the three main factors are:

-aesthetics
-attribute values
-Convenience

When it comes to pure bang for the buck, Orcs and Humans are easily the two best choices. For some magic traditions, Elves are superior (like a wakyambi Houngan, to name an excemple), but by and large, Orcs and Humans are best.

Humans are a net gain pf 10BP (+1 Edge), Whereas Orcs are a net gain of 30BP (+3 Body, +2 Strength).
By comparison, Elves are cost neutral (+0BP) and Trolls are at +40BP, but both are more specific in their application (Charisma) or display more significant drawbacks (capped Agility and Intuition).

On the aesthetic level, Elves and humans are likely to be the two top choices, but especially with human looking, Orks come into the race as an actual contender.

Last but not least, conveneience also plays a major factor here. Out of all the race options, ONly Trolls and Dwarves need extra accomodations, making everything more expensive. And that's just the rules section. The social consequences of hardly fitting into a cab, hardly fitting through a door, or hardly reaching up to the bar desk are a whole other world of grief. Most players probably won't want to take up with that.
Also, the concept of "the fat short kid" isn't exactly the one screaming "hero" or "tough guy", regardless of the fluff. You can tell people "dwarves are tough as nails" all day long, but the first impresion they will get is "the short fat one".

If they had any significant benefit, you'd see more dwarves, but they are just a novelty item that people play when they get bored of everything else (or if they are diehard dwarf fans for some obscure reason; A friend of mine would fall into that category).
Within our gaming group, even when it would have been a major benefit to play a dwarf (dronomancer technomancer), the player decided in favor for an Orc (despite the drawbacks).

[pbangarth]

Well, in a world in which magic plays a significant role, I think the bonuses dwarfs get should be seen as more important. Most direct damage and manipulation spells affect either WIL or BOD. Dwarfs get bonuses in both. And in the plus/minus calculation above, dwarfs come in at +15, better than humans.

[Ol' Scratch]

+5. Humans get a free point of Edge.

[Bull]

There's also Wheeler from Mel Odom's Jack Skater novels. He's a kick ass dwarf rigger. He's also the focal point of my Dwarfs & Riggers SRTCG deck, which is my favored deck to play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've run several dwarves over the years. I can't remember his name offhand, but I had a former Secret Service agent who ended up working for the "Dream Police", a squad of runners put together by the Draco Foundation to try and complete items from Dunklezahn's Will. Kreig, one half of the band Blitzkrieg (Who I name dropped in Dot6W), a menahune drummer. I've had a couple others that were short lived characters due to the campaigns not going anywhere.

But yes, Dwarves tend to not get too much play. They're not as physically impressive as a Troll or even an Ork, they're not as "point friendly" or as normal as a Human, and they don;t have the overblown PR that Elves get (I blame Peter Jackson, in part. Fucking shield surfing elves).

Bull