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[Stormdrake]

For the free Spirit power Hidden Life, the Grimoire is a little confusing. The description says that all hiding places have an armor rating equal to the spirits force rating which works both against magical and mundane. It then goes on to say that if the hidden life is in a living creature/human it aquires the power of Immunity to normal weapons. Should you stack the two when dealing with mundane weapons?

[FlakJacket]

I'd say probably not. Immunity is powerful enough just by itself, add extra to it would just be a little much in my opinion. And if you put it in a person, I can't remember if this was a canon rule or something someone came up with, it's always fun to make the person take a number of mental flaws equal to the spirits rating. Kinda reflects the things stuffing a spirit inside of you might do. :)

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Stormdrake]

While I would tend to agree this leaves the individual with the spirits life in it totaly open to magical weapons. Which the information in the Grimoire seems to say should not be. I "think" the armor rating they mention should be allowed but not stackable with immunity to normal weapons. This gives the vessel protection from magical weapons and if it ends up on the ethereal plain it has some armor to protect it.

[toturi]

The amount of Mental Flaws is equal to Spirit Energy rating, not Force, so basically all the spirit has to do is to keep the SE low and the meta-human is home free.

Mental Flaw - Compulsion 1 - Neatness

Compulsion 2 - Very Neat :D

[FlakJacket]

So we know how to deal with the guy then. Neat Freak, meet Mr Rat Shaman. Rat Shaman, Neat Freak. :D

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Stormdrake]

Yes but once the life force is hidden it can not be moved. So driving the poor bugger nuts could cause some problems for the spirit. Especially if the host become suicidal. Yes, he has immunity to normal weapons but that will only go so far.

[Glyph]

Yeah, you have to remember that if the person with the spirit's Hidden Life dies, so does the spirit (which is also why it is unlikely that a spirit would ever use this power on someone in a dangerous occupation like shadowrunning - an exception might be if the free spirit and the runner were lovers, blood brothers, or something else where the spirit wanted to both protect the other person, and not go on living if that person dies).

On the other hand, remember that things like animals become pawns of the spirit. Maybe the mental flaws could be the person taking on aspects of the spirit - someone who is the Hidden Life receptacle for a fire elemental might have the Combat Monster Flaw and a severe phobia of large bodies of water, for example. It could also represent the person resisting the spirit's will, and developing odd compulsions and quirks as he or she begins to crack from the strain. I think a spirit using this power on a metahuman would walk a thin line between trying to exert control, and not wanting this person that they are inextricably bound to becoming self-destructive or violent.

[FlakJacket]

So take one evil spirit, use the create wealth power to get a steady supply of valuables to turn into cash, and then hire some extremely pricey nut-house to store the poor bastard you've hidden you Life in. Just make sure that it's somewhere that's a) really conservative and that doesn't like magic, and b) where enough cash will keep them locked away without being treated.

[Glyph]

But wouldn't it be a lot simpler for the spirit to just put its Hidden Life power in a rock or something, then? If a spirit puts its Hidden Life power into someone, I kind of assume that they have some compelling reason to do so.

[Talia Invierno]

Such as an unwillingly bound free spirit. Strikes me as a very useful way of protecting oneself from possible later retaliation if the spirit manages to escape ... although I can think of some ways the spirit could get around the killing restriction (endangering its own existence) while still getting quite some measure of satisfaction.

Mostly, though, a spirit placing its life force within another living person would either have a previous investment in that person (ie. the lovers mentioned earlier), consider the person better able to protect it than it could itself (especially spirits below Force 4 - but it doesn't take that long for the spirit to probably become more powerful than their host), or have been blackmailed into it in some manner - threat to itself or to someone it cares for.

Another option might be a variant bordering on possession: the mental quirks and flaws probably reflecting the spirit's own nature dominating over the metahuman's: might this be a way to bend a potentially powerful metahuman tool to the spirit's will?

[toturi]

[Talia Invierno]

Oh, that pun hurts!

I can see some parts of the symbiosis, definitely, but I do have to question this:

[Frag-o Delux]

As an Ally Spirit if the mage/shaman wanted it to get stronger the mage/shaman would have to give it karma and go through a ritual of change. As a Free Spirit, a mage/shaman can donate karma on a one for one basis, meaning if the mage/shaman gave 1 karma to the spirit, the spirit would get 1, as opposed to a Sam I think they give a 3 for 1, meaning the Sam gives 3 and the Spirit gets 1. So yes the Free Spirit is on the losing end of the deal. The relationship is not symbiotic, more like parasitic on the mages/shamans part. :D

[Munchkinslayer]

Here's a question: Why would an immortal entity put its life force into a mortal being? People have mentioned the life force-receptical perishing through misadventure, but what about old age? Even if you life for 150 years, that's a blink of the eye for an immortal, right? Guess you could put the life energy in an IE, strap him down out in the middle of nowhere, feed him through a tube, let him crap in a bag, and call it good. But I gotta figure hidden life would be in an inanimate (and durable) object.

[Talia Invierno]

Thanks, Frag-o Delux - and like all good answers, obvious in retrospect (d'oh!). You're right: definitely easier from the magician's pov - less work to donate. Whether that means the magician would actually end up donating more karma to the spirit than would have happened otherwise would then depend upon individual mindset ... but most of us are posting from within convenience-oriented societies and environments, after all.

Munchkinslayer: I'd thought the mortal being gained Immunity to Age as a side effect of becoming the reciptacle for Hidden Life? But I don't have the texts with me - someone check me on this?

[Frag-o Delux]

It could be more karma in the long run for the mage/shamn if he tried to make the Spirit really strong and at a certain point the mage/shaman couldn't go any higher the ritual of change TN would be to high. So lettign an Ally go my be a away for the mage/shaman to get a powerful friend, by letting the team subsidise the spirit by donating karma also, and the Spirit could always talk strangers into giign it karma. BU tyou also runt the risk of it just splitting on you, so you woud have to be a very good ally to the spirit to keep it around, but a descent size team could esily keep the spirit interested.

EDIT: Hidden life gives, Immunity to Age, normal weapons, pathogens and toxins, as welll as regeneration, Plus the animal attributes increase by a value of the spirits Force, It also says the animal becomes the puppet of the Spirit. It is a rumor that Metahumans can be recipients of Hidden life, but the mental flaw thing is there also, so I guess if you want it is ok to do it.

The armor thing is for hiding places, so I think inanimate material get s the Force + spirit energy in armor while the rest of the stuff the animal gets.

[Munchkinslayer]

[toturi]

You want to live forever? Get a free spirit! No need for those pesky expensive Leonisation treatments! Just show us the Karma!

Oh, for the PC's case, it was kinda unique in that the PC was dying from wounds when the free spirit decided to come back looking for him and the spirit had no Healing spells, so he did the next best thing, Hidden Life- Regeneration.

[Rev]

I think there ought to be some major difference involved in putting the hidden life into a sentient being.

Some possibilities:

The host must know the spirit's true name.

The host does not gain immunity to aging (but perhaps they will live significantly longer than normal due to immunity to toxins/pathogens and regeneration), and when they die the spirit dies.

There exists a ritual where the spirit sacrifices the host and moves its life into a new sentient host (which has great tension with the first two whether they are friendly or not).

Half the hosts karma goes to the spirit.

Cyberware in the host reduces the spirit's force just as it does the host's essence

[REM]

wow this was the very last thread on page 13...... neat.

[k1tsune]

You ressurected this just for that?

[REM]

yeah......

[moosegod]