[X] My Assistant

[Tiger Eyes]

I have still not gotten a reply from CGL over the Ctulutech books that I paid for and they never shipped.

That may be because Catalyst terminated (as in employment, not SR style) Troy Garner, who ran the BattleShop and did all the in house shipping and answered all the customer service emails.

Tara Bills is now doing those jobs for CGL, and she's only working one or two days a week, I believe (to the best of my knowledge). You may want to try emailing more frequently, and/or emailing some other CGL emails. "Invoicing" followed by @catalystgamelabs.com will get through to Randall Bills (her manager) directly.

[BlueMax]

That may be because Catalyst terminated (as in employment, not SR style) Troy Garner, who ran the BattleShop and did all the in house shipping and answered all the customer service emails.

Tara Bills is now doing those jobs for CGL, and she's only working one or two days a week, I believe (to the best of my knowledge). You may want to try emailing more frequently, and/or emailing some other CGL emails. "Invoicing" followed by @catalystgamelabs.com will get through to Randall Bills (her manager) directly.

Odd question: I have a poor memory. Is that Troy's full name? For some reason its firing some of the neurons but not all of them.

/me hits the soykaf harder.

BlueMax

[otakusensei]

That may be because Catalyst terminated (as in employment, not SR style) Troy Garner, who ran the BattleShop and did all the in house shipping and answered all the customer service emails.

Tara Bills is now doing those jobs for CGL, and she's only working one or two days a week, I believe (to the best of my knowledge). You may want to try emailing more frequently, and/or emailing some other CGL emails. "Invoicing" followed by @catalystgamelabs.com will get through to Randall Bills (her manager) directly.

I'm sorry to hear that. Troy took care of some difficult billing for me via email when I bought Vice. I was impressed that someone was able to address my emails in real time and bring a solution right away.

It's these positive experiences with CGL folks that make hearing about all the current situation feel like such a betrayal. Plus it's a bad time for anyone to be out of work.

[nezumi]

Catalyst. Regardless of who originally published Shadowrun material, Catalyst is the publisher of it currently.

So it goes to the owners and, indirectly, to anyone with a permanent salary over there. So if I were to sit on my hands until the matter is settled, and publicly say "please settle this matter because I can't support a company which is failing to properly pay its creative people", that would be a good thing, even if it's only a tiny good thing.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Just remember that if matters don't get settled, it's quite likely that those nag-free PDFs are gone like tears in rain.

[virgileso]

That's not the point: Jason was referring to "CGL's loss of the Shadowrun license seems a guarantee". And I haven't seen any fact that confirms this.

When there is extreme embezzlement, attempts at tax fraud, failure to pay its writers on larger than normal scale for an RPG company, a number of employees no longer working for the company (up to and including ethical reasons), and absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator, I don't see how I'm committing 'rampant speculation'. It's more along the lines of a logical conclusion barring narratively strange events some would decry as a Deus Ex Machina (his uncle dies and leaves him a couple million in inheritance). True speculation would be theorizing that SR4LE is locked in customs because the IRS is seizing his inventory.

[Demonseed Elite]

It's still speculation, even if you can make an argument that it's likely. Topps may decide to give CGL breathing room to pay for the license over time, meaning they would not have to come up with the money immediately. And it's still possible that CGL may be able to borrow money from somewhere, even now. No one can really say anything for certain at this point.

[nezumi]

Just remember that if matters don't get settled, it's quite likely that those nag-free PDFs are gone like tears in rain.

I can't imagine that's how it'll go.

I mean, we're talking about Fan Pro holding a product, already made, that costs $0 to produce, $0 to ship or maintain, and is guaranteed income. They'd have to be stupid to let them just disappear.

[JM Hardy]

When there is extreme embezzlement, attempts at tax fraud, failure to pay its writers on larger than normal scale for an RPG company, a number of employees no longer working for the company (up to and including ethical reasons), and absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator, I don't see how I'm committing 'rampant speculation'. It's more along the lines of a logical conclusion barring narratively strange events some would decry as a Deus Ex Machina (his uncle dies and leaves him a couple million in inheritance). True speculation would be theorizing that SR4LE is locked in customs because the IRS is seizing his inventory.

First, not everyone would characterize the facts as you have. Second, your phrase "absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator" is speculation. Thus, conclusions based on it are also speculation.

Jason H.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Any statement about the future is speculation by definition, anyway.

I can't imagine that's how it'll go.

I can, vividly: The traditional publishers are very sceptical about PDFs – even more after WotC tried & cancelled it.

[Adam]

I mean, we're talking about Fan Pro holding a product, already made, that costs $0 to produce, $0 to ship or maintain, and is guaranteed income. They'd have to be stupid to let them just disappear.

I'm sorry, do you mean "Topps" in this statement?

[virgileso]

First, not everyone would characterize the facts as you have. Second, your phrase "absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator" is speculation. Thus, conclusions based on it are also speculation.

There wasn't extreme embezzlement? Jennifer Harding & Adam Jury didn't leave for ethical reasons, at least one of them being asked to commit fraud? A number of employees (freelancers included) are no longer working for the company, and it's firmly established some are upset with what's being done. The Limited Edition book isn't locked in customs? These facts look pretty cut and dry to me. The very fact a fair number of people are exceedingly upset, enough to feed Frank accurate information so it can be brought to light and I've yet to see/hear of anything positive about the situation concerning the Colemans to ease concerns; and I don't count vague "we are doing fine, please ignore the fire", because that's honestly more speculative than the conclusions I'm reaching.

Even then, speculation isn't against the rules. This thread is specifically titled to be about speculation. Being told that I shouldn't do it is kind of insulting.

[Whipstitch]

It's also not against the rules to ask someone to refrain from being too hasty. Nobody's threatening you with the banhammer, they're just disagreeing with some conclusions that you seemed to be treating as an inevitability in your earlier posts. Put down the soykaf, everything will be OK.

[Kid Chameleon]

There wasn't extreme embezzlement?

We've got Ken Lay going to withdraw $4.2 billion while executing a 720 with a half twist. Can he do it folks? Wait and see, right after we watch Robert Vesco wire $56.3 million to his Caymans account at 425 miles per hour! Extreeeeeeeme embezzlement this Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!

[nezumi]

I'm sorry, do you mean "Topps" in this statement?

Sorry. What's funny is I already edited it once to change it from "Wiz Kids". These corporate shennanigans get me all messed up.

[X-Kalibur]

Jason is doing his best to play damage control within the limits of his capacity. He just wants to keep wild and unconfirmed rumors to a minimum.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Jason is doing his best to play damage control within the limits of his capacity.

That's not a nice thing to say.

[X-Kalibur]

That's not a nice thing to say.

I mean that only within the capacity of his position, not his mental abilities. Obviously he is not allowed to give out much information.

[Patrick Goodman]

I should point out at this point that I don't really have a dog in this hunt any longer, so those who want to say I'm toeing the company line can politely go and get stuffed. I prefer to take the only logical course open to any of us: Wait and see what shakes out. We can't see the future, any of us, so we're all just kind of in a holding pattern for the time being.

There wasn't extreme embezzlement?

It hasn't been proved one way or the other as yet whether embezzlement actually occurred at all. While I'm inclined to think that yes, there was embezzlement, my opinion doesn't actually count for much. Nor does yours. In any event, nothing's been conclusively proved; that makes this statement speculation.

Jennifer Harding & Adam Jury didn't leave for ethical reasons, at least one of them being asked to commit fraud?

That is, indeed, why Jennifer says she left. Adam has steadfastly refused to comment publicly on the matter, and more power to him for that stance. Again, speculation (at least as far as why Adam left CGL).

A number of employees (freelancers included) are no longer working for the company, and it's firmly established some are upset with what's being done.

I speak for no one but myself here: I didn't leave because Loren may or may not have been dipping into the till. It didn't help the situation, to be sure, but that's not why I left. I left for two reasons. First, I hadn't been paid for my work on Running Wild (a situation that has since been rectified). Second, I'm not all that wild about the current slate of products; they don't match up with my tastes or my views on the game world, and they certainly don't lend themselves to my writing style. At least I don't think they do.

So, I'm not a freelancer for CGL anymore. This could change in the future, with the right set of circumstances, and Jason and I have had what I consider very productive talks to this end. Again, we'll have to wait and see what shakes out.

But saying why any particular employee or freelancer has left the company...unless you're quoting a particular individual about their particular circumstances, you're speculating.

The Limited Edition book isn't locked in customs?

Can't really argue with you there, I suppose. Everyone involved seems to agree that there is, in fact, a container filled with SR4A LEs somewhere in the customs system. You're automatic assumption elsewhere that it's a tax lien against Loren L Coleman is the sheerest of speculation.

These facts look pretty cut and dry to me.

A fair number of those facts are suppositions, on your part and the part of a lot of other people.

The very fact a fair number of people are exceedingly upset, enough to feed Frank accurate information so it can be brought to light and I've yet to see/hear of anything positive about the situation concerning the Colemans to ease concerns; and I don't count vague "we are doing fine, please ignore the fire", because that's honestly more speculative than the conclusions I'm reaching.

Oh, yes. It's obviously not speculation because someone fed it to Saint Frank Trollman, the patron saint of shit-stirrers, axe-grinders, and the profoundly negative everywhere.

Frank's self-righteous hatchetjobs have been the cause for a lot of trouble in the past, and this present situation is no different. People putting too much weight in his statements are setting themselves up for a series of falls, IMO, and I hope when they start happening they're not too severe, because some of the people I think are going to fall along with him are people I consider friends.

Even then, speculation isn't against the rules.

No, but most of the speculation that's come out of this has been, shall we say, hyperbolic at best. While it's not against the rules, it doesn't help anything, either.

This thread is specifically titled to be about speculation. Being told that I shouldn't do it is kind of insulting.

You're young. You'll bounce back.

[JM Hardy]

There wasn't extreme embezzlement? Jennifer Harding & Adam Jury didn't leave for ethical reasons, at least one of them being asked to commit fraud? A number of employees (freelancers included) are no longer working for the company, and it's firmly established some are upset with what's being done. The Limited Edition book isn't locked in customs? These facts look pretty cut and dry to me. The very fact a fair number of people are exceedingly upset, enough to feed Frank accurate information so it can be brought to light and I've yet to see/hear of anything positive about the situation concerning the Colemans to ease concerns; and I don't count vague "we are doing fine, please ignore the fire", because that's honestly more speculative than the conclusions I'm reaching.

Even then, speculation isn't against the rules. This thread is specifically titled to be about speculation. Being told that I shouldn't do it is kind of insulting.

"Extreme embezzlement" is a very loaded term. Until you can come up with a definition that people can objectively agree to, I'm going to politely disagree that the term represents a cut-and-dry fact. I would also not put the claim of fraud into the cut and dry column.

The fact that people leaked information shows that they are angry. I don't blame them for being angry; I'm angry too, at a wide number of things. That anger, though, does not "guarantee" that CGL will lose the Shadowrun license. It indicates that there are problems at CGL, which no one is disputing. That's why I've been on these boards frequently, talking to people, etc., to try to communicate what I can and relieve some of the tension that has cropped up to the best of my ability.

I never said speculation was against the rules. I asked you not to do it because it doesn't help the situation and further inflames a situation that has already caused severe strain on a significant number of people. I'm sorry you find the request insulting; it was not intended as such.

Jason H.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well Jason, the numbers we've seen seem to indicate between $600,000 and $800,000 dollars.

To the average RPG buyer that seems pretty extreme. Now.. it's not on par with multibillion dollar firms or international banking embezzlements, but over half a million to almost a million dollars is a lot of coin.

I don't think acting like that term is strange is being 100% forthright. Even the low ball number is over half a million dollars. That's pretty extreme.

[JM Hardy]

Well Jason, the numbers we've seen seem to indicate between $600,000 and $800,000 dollars.

To the average RPG buyer that seems pretty extreme. Now.. it's not on par with multibillion dollar firms or international banking embezzlements, but over half a million to almost a million dollars is a lot of coin.

I don't think acting like that term is strange is being 100% forthright. Even the low ball number is over half a million dollars. That's pretty extreme.

I didn't say the term was strange--I said it was not cut-and-dry fact. You have your interpretation of it. Others have theirs. All I'm saying is that not everyone will agree that "extreme embezzlement" is the proper label for what happened. Some may feel it is completely appropriate, and that's their right (and to be clear, I'm not going to argue that point one way or the other). But that does not suddenly turn a subjective term into an objective one.

Jason H.

[tete]

Any statement about the future is speculation by definition, anyway.

I can, vividly: The traditional publishers are very sceptical about PDFs – even more after WotC tried & cancelled it.

Do you not consider White-Wolf a traditional publisher(at leased in terms of RPG companies they are)? They have had the Digital Initiative for awhile and the announcement was made earlier this year on rpg.net that they should begin phasing out there print books in favor of POD and PDF before the year is over as it now looks like they have a POD publisher again after Lulu raised their prices. Its still not official yet but White-Wolf would like to go totally PDF. Steve Jackson also mentioned in his shareholders thing he does every year that while PDF sales are abysmal, they are going up in sales where as the print books are going down. He was guessing in the next 2-3 years PDFs may start to break even in initial sales for the time invested in making them.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ugg. I hope they don't go totally PDF.. that would NOT be a good way to go till more people have Padds in hand. I have collected WW for over a decade and have over 4 GB in whitewolf pdfs but yeah... even I would be aginst that.

Keep your hard copy and sell the PDF's to augment your hardcopy sales.

Part of the problem with PDF's is the fact that you don't get anything in 'hand'. People hate paying money for a few electrons flying over the air. It feels like they're paying for something that costs nothing to produce (( I know it's not so. I'm just saying)) they want something in hand to show for their money.

I've got a dozen bookcases full of RPGs, and I'd choose them over PDF everytime. But I ALSO buy the PDFs to augment the hardcopy.

Make the Hardcopy normal price. Sell the PDF for half or a third of hard copy cover price. Make loads of money.

[DireRadiant]

Oh, yes. It's obviously not speculation because someone fed it to Saint Frank Trollman, .....

No personal attacks.

ToS