[X] My Assistant

[MindandPen]

...Shadowrun is bigger than just Catalyst...

This is, I think, the heart and soul of the emotion that this thread has brought forth. It is a game that has survived and endured and is something we have all enjoyed for 20 years. We have seen it grow up, and for many of the freelancers, I suspect it is much like watching a child grow up as you have played such a fundamental part of it. This is also the reason why it will endure, no matter what happens.

Which is all a very long way to say: at this point, there is nothing to do but wait and see. I would not ask anyone here to take what I say at face value, but I think I've made my biases clear. If there is any underlying motive, it is a desire that no one else need be warned, suspended, or banned due to these threads. As you post, I would ask you all to consider that we are all making our own judgments as to what is true and what is false, and respond with the understanding that the actual facts of the matter are currently few. We deal mainly with the effects and implications.

Amen brother.

-M&P

[Megu]

Second (though in truth this is happening at the same time as the first thing), I'm working to get products that were on the verge of coming out, out. That means, in essentially this order, DotA 2, Corp Guide, Sixth World Almanac, Runner's Toolkit. That's where my efforts have been focused recently.

After that will come the books that have been drafted to some degree: War!, Attitude, the conclusion of Dawn of the Artifacts, and some new adventures. And then we venture into new territory.

Jason H.

Wait, what's Attitude about? Has this been mentioned before?

[hermit]

Entire sections were simply lifted whole from previous Seattle sourcebooks. The same goes with some of the "setting" locations: Feral City's write up for Lagos leaned heavily on Cyberpirates!, for example.

It did? I only remember Cyberpirates making a passing note about how Lagos has a semi-working matrix network, that's all. Cyberpirates focused on Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire. Lagos was a new writeup?

I agree the Seattle book was in parts mere copypasting of former Seattlepublications, but with two Seattle publications covering the exact same subject, it wouldbe strange to expect a suddenly totally new setting? I'm certain the outcry about making Seattle something 'new and exciting' would have been greater.

I am not saying it's the best since sliced bread, but where was Lagos a copypaste job?

[Cardul]

It did? I only remember Cyberpirates making a passing note about how Lagos has a semi-working matrix network, that's all. Cyberpirates focused on Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire. Lagos was a new writeup?

I agree the Seattle book was in parts mere copypasting of former Seattlepublications, but with two Seattle publications covering the exact same subject, it wouldbe strange to expect a suddenly totally new setting? I'm certain the outcry about making Seattle something 'new and exciting' would have been greater.

I am not saying it's the best since sliced bread, but where was Lagos a copypaste job?

Honestly? Seattle 2072, which I am reading through my gen-con dtf version now, does not seem to be
a copy-and-paste at all...then again, I never got New Seattle. That there might be similarities, or the same places
discussed using similar descriptions, is understandable. However, really, I do not think it was a "copy and paste" job.

[hermit]

Honestly? Seattle 2072, which I am reading through my gen-con dtf version now, does not seem to be
a copy-and-paste at all...then again, I never got New Seattle. That there might be similarities, or the same places
discussed using similar descriptions, is understandable. However, really, I do not think it was a "copy and paste" job.

It has sections that seemed very similar to Runner Havens' Seattle writeup, and many of the places and firms visited were from the original Seattle Sourcebook. I think that could be expected, though. It's an okay book, all in all, if you ask me, but as always, YMMV.

[Cain]

Well, in the tags here is the 800-word article I recently wrote about Why Shadowrun Is Awesome Now. Have at it!

[ Spoiler ]

Shadowrun: Hitting New Peaks After 20 Years
Shadowrun, with its unique “magic cyberpunk noir” setting, has remained popular for two decades, but its new incarnation has brought it to new heights. The longstanding complaint many had about Shadowrun—“Love the setting, hate the rules”—has been muted with the Shadowrun Twentieth Anniversary core rulebook. The most accessible rules Shadowrun has ever had are given a cleaner organization, improved art, and a beautiful layout. The rulebook also includes short stories that illustrate how game concepts work while exploring the breadth of Shadowrun’s Sixth World setting.

The new core rulebook is accompanied by books that extend the rules and provide extra options for players and gamemasters. Arsenal offers more weapons, armor, and vehicles; Augmentation extends the ways characters can alter their bodies, from cyber implants to bioware; Street Magic broadens the world of magic for characters and provides new traditions to follow and spells to cast; and Unwired takes advantage of one of the biggest improvement in the current rules, putting hackers in the middle of the action and giving them more to do.

Shadowrun has long been valued for the total freedom it offers players in creating characters. With several races, attributes, and skills to choose from, players can customize their character to suit their vision. They might want to be a sword-slinging, sharp-shooting warrior of the streets, or perhaps they’d rather command a small army of spirits to do their bidding, or maybe they want to master the Matrix and get access to the secrets buried under piles of binary data. Whatever they imagine, they can be. The Runner’s Companion core rulebook extends that freedom, offering even more races and character options.

While these books provide a wide range of rules and options for any situation, it may be daunting for players and gamemasters to find the right rule at the right time. That is why the Shadowrun Twentieth Anniversary Edition contains a first in Shadowrun history—a comprehensive index for all of the core rulebooks, making it easy to find any rules and topics readers are looking for.

With these core rules in place, we’ve been working to build exciting adventures and further flesh out the world. The Dawn of the Artifacts series of adventures plunges players into the secret history of the Sixth World, Vice immerses them in the world of organized crime, and the forthcoming Corporate Guide details the most powerful bodies in the Sixth World, the megacorporations. Additionally, the forthcoming Sixth World Almanac (see sidebar) provides a depth of historical and geographical information that has never been offered before in Shadowrun, and the Runner’s Toolkit box set offers a tools to make running a Shadowrun game easier than ever. Plus, Catalyst has plans for much-anticipated Shadowrun fiction, including a novel by Phaedra Weldon, author of the Zoë Martinique Investigations series.

Finally, there is one other big reason to be excited about Shadowrun: the fans. Shadowrun has a dedicated, passionate fan base that provides extraordinary support for the game. The Shadowrun fan page on Facebook has thousands of members, with hundreds more added monthly. When they were asked to list what they think is awesome about Shadowrun, they generated dozens of responses in a single hour. They love the setting and are excited to see it grow!

>>>>>BEGIN SIDEBAR
Latest Seattle Sourcebook Nominated for Origins Award
Seattle, the core city of the Shadowrun setting, was the subject of the Seattle 2072 sourcebook that was released in late 2009 and has now been nominated for an Origins Award in the Roleplaying Game Supplement category. One of five nods for Catalyst Game Labs products, this nomination recognizes the hard work of a skilled team of writers and artists, including lead author and Shadowrun veteran Steve Kenson.

Seattle 2072 does more than detail the physical locations of Seattle—it describes the politics, culture, and atmosphere of the shadowrunning capital of the world, and includes fiction interludes and full-color art that put readers into the Sixth World
>>>>>END SIDEBAR

>>>>>BEGIN SIDEBAR
Dev cmts—The Sixth World Almanac
Before I became line developer, I wrote a significant portion of the forthcoming Sixth World Almanac. Immersing myself in the timeline and geography of the setting was a lot of fun, and I became quite excited about the product.

Then I became line developer and learned even more about what was going into this book. And I became more excited. One of the early things I worked on as developer was generating the first-ever complete world map for Shadowrun. Mentioning that to the fans on Facebook generated a positive response that still surpasses anything I have seen from the fans. They are excited for the book, and when they see the world detail included in the Almanac and the gorgeous, full-color art, I believe their excitement will be rewarded.
—JMH
>>>>>END SIDEBAR

It's good to know you've got postive things to say about Shadowrun. However, I asked for positive things about Catalyst Game Labs.

In all fairness, Cain asked JH to say something good about CGL. Whether or not that's what Cain was looking for is another matter entirely.

Exactly. There's been pages upon pages of negative things being said about the company. Let's hear some positive things. JH, I believe you love Shadowrun, and have a passion for it. Please show us your passion for the company producing it.

[Dread Moores]

Honestly? Seattle 2072, which I am reading through my gen-con dtf version now, does not seem to be
a copy-and-paste at all...then again, I never got New Seattle. That there might be similarities, or the same places
discussed using similar descriptions, is understandable. However, really, I do not think it was a "copy and paste" job.

Yeah, that was my thoughts on it as well. Similar, definitely, and expected. Copy and paste job? It didn't seem that way to me.

[Lansdren]

It's good to know you've got postive things to say about Shadowrun. However, I asked for positive things about Catalyst Game Labs.


Exactly. There's been pages upon pages of negative things being said about the company. Let's hear some positive things. JH, I believe you love Shadowrun, and have a passion for it. Please show us your passion for the company producing it.

I have to agree here it would be nice to see something positive about CGL,

The game is great but then we all know that

[JM Hardy]

It's good to know you've got postive things to say about Shadowrun. However, I asked for positive things about Catalyst Game Labs.


Exactly. There's been pages upon pages of negative things being said about the company. Let's hear some positive things. JH, I believe you love Shadowrun, and have a passion for it. Please show us your passion for the company producing it.

What's positive about CGL is that they are the ones putting out the products I listed. There is a commitment to putting out beautiful, quality products, and that has raised the profile of the game lines they manage. I focused on the products, because that's what we do--generate product. That's what matters for the games.

Jason H.

[Clutch9800]

Post withdrawn. I honestly didn't mean to do any pot stirring.

Clutch ⨪

[Redjack]

We are led to believe that it went something like this:

Actually we have no real idea what went on besides the exact words told first person by each party involved. This continual 'stirring of the pot' is doing no good and simply continues to inflame both sides as well as those of us caught in the middle.

[David Hill]

Well,

One of the things that I am very interested in is the allegations of falsifying reports to the licensor.

Since there are most assuredly at least two sides to every story, one must assume that the truth of the matter lies somewhere in between.

On the one hand, we have an ex-employee alleging that L.L.C. demanded that she falsify earnings reports to Topps. We are led to believe that it went something like this:

...

Clutch ⨪

How very... Reasonable.

Are you sure you're on the same internet I am? Because that's not how people on the internet I'm familiar with discuss things.

[JM Hardy]

Jason,
I had a long day. Where was "get more material to playtesters"? and "with plenty of time for feedback"?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
/me ducks
/me zags
/me zigs

BlueMax
/ bet you thought I would zig first

It was implied it the "products I'm working on" section. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Jason H.

[otakusensei]

The thing is, even before this entire situation broke, we did not give out information about product timing until we had a street date for them. There are too many things that can delay a product as it moves forward, and past experience had shown that announcing a date and then not meeting it proved very frustrating to fans. Now, of course, the ideal would be announcing a date and then consistently hitting it, but as I said there are a lot of variables out there, and one inevitably jumps up and bites you in the butt.

The basic order of things is this: First, we are working to get already published or completed books back on sale. Checks have been sent out to help that process, but it's not enough to mail checks; we have to wait until they have cleared before we can move forward. In cases where more than just checks are needed, we're working to get the advice and knowledge we need to move forward with what we can.

Second (though in truth this is happening at the same time as the first thing), I'm working to get products that were on the verge of coming out, out. That means, in essentially this order, DotA 2, Corp Guide, Sixth World Almanac, Runner's Toolkit. That's where my efforts have been focused recently.

After that will come the books that have been drafted to some degree: War!, Attitude, the conclusion of Dawn of the Artifacts, and some new adventures. And then we venture into new territory.

As I have said before, I am working to get product out. That will continue to be the case until someone in an official capacity tells me I shouldn't do that anymore. Also, I only discussed my activities. Management is working on important activities such as paying freelancers, dealing with the license, finding personnel as needed, etc. etc. But again, there are details that, for many reasons (such as: they're confidential, there's legal stuff involved, we have policy against committing to dates before products are ready, and there's stuff I just plain don't know) won't come out in this forum.

Jason H.

I see what you're doing there, Jason. I understand what you're saying and I respect that it's as far as you can go. But it doesn't address the problems CGL has had from the get go in getting product out. That's part of the reason there is so much animosity now. We were all (most fans I'm guessing) scratching our heads watching a very drawn out release schedule for product. Those of us who knew freelancers heard about how hard it was to get paid by CGL. The information we had added up to a fear that Shadowrun wasn't making enough money to fund a robust release schedule.

Then Frank shows up with an accusation that someone has been taking money from the system for years and suddenly all that built up fear and disappointment has a target. We get a name, an MO, practically everything we need to make the conclusion that there is someone responsible for hurting our game. Because we don't have the license, we don't plan or publish books, but as fans we feel like this is our game and frankly without us it would just be a very expensive idea.

Then we see this mass exodus of talent from CGL. That was the most damning bit for me, and the heart of why I asked for info. All this creative talent, people I have come to associate with quality, are now gone. Putting aside the accusations and rumors of who did what, it leaves the impression of a considerable brain drain at CGL.

What I want to know is who and what is going on now. Right now I'm dubious of anything that CGL is about to put out. I'm disinclined to purchase from CGL for two reasons, outrage at the accusations and fear of a loss of quality. One of those you can't do anything about and I respect that. However if things are as rosy as you state they are you could share with us a look at the quality of the work being done. Drop some names we might recognize but not be aware of. Let us look at some of their previous work and show us why you think the line is in such good hands.

Without that all we have is smoke and marketing spin. People could be nicer about how they say it, but at this point I don't expect people to call a duck anything but a duck. I'm not asking for finished product, or previews, but that would be nice. Whatever happens with the game it's in your hands now and you've stated that work is moving forward. Let us speculate on that work rather than take shots in the dark on the quality and if anything will ever be published again with the CGL badge. At this point we have nothing but ammo and time.

[Chrome Tiger]

It was implied it the "products I'm working on" section. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Jason H.

Yeah, I can use some more SR playtesting. My brain is getting Eclipse Phased to the nth degree. Not that I mind, really, just saying... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cain]

What's positive about CGL is that they are the ones putting out the products I listed. There is a commitment to putting out beautiful, quality products, and that has raised the profile of the game lines they manage. I focused on the products, because that's what we do--generate product. That's what matters for the games.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer, and thank you for your response.

That being said....

Come on, is the fact that CGL is putting out quality product all that's good about the company? No talk about company charitable events, no talk about your new, quality talent-- nothing but good words about products? This is an opportunity to undo some of the damage done-- tell us why Catalyst isn't as bad as everyone sounds. Head off the oncoming boycott people here are talking about; make us feel good about Catalyst. Loren L. Coleman has been charged with fraud, embezzlement, and willful ethical violations, plus possibly forcing out several people I respect. That's bad. Let's hear something good for once.

[augmentin]

[Warning, the following is "rampant speculation:"]

Who thinks Shadowrun would be better off in Posthuman's hands?

Who else is there?

(Besides CGL, of course.)

[otakusensei]

[Warning, the following is "rampant speculation:"]

Who thinks Shadowrun would be better off in Posthuman's hands?

Who else is there?

(Besides CGL, of course.)

It kind of was in Posthuman's hands. During that time I felt like the game went through a Renaissance. I've never seen Shadowrun at a point where it can attract and maintain the fan base that it does right now. The rules set is just right to please veterans while catching folks who want something on par with White Wolf or a bit less structured than 4th ed. D&D. Add to that the modern meets fantasy meets cyberpunk setting and there's something there for everyone. Right now is a great time for Shadowrun.

I would love to see Adam working on Shadowrun again at some point. Dude is mad talented and while I'm glad to hear that he isn't bored these days I can't wait to see how this all shakes out simply to find out who's working on Shadowrun.

[nezumi]

Except neither CGL, Post-Human, or even White Jesus get to make that decision. It's based off of Topps. Topps made, IMO, a good decision moving it to CGL, and that suggests to me there's some sense of what makes Shadowrun a good product (so I'm really not worried about a d20 version), but they're still a business selling things to the highest bidder. No offense to Adam, but I'd be surprised if Post-Human could afford the license.

[JM Hardy]

I see what you're doing there, Jason. I understand what you're saying and I respect that it's as far as you can go. But it doesn't address the problems CGL has had from the get go in getting product out. That's part of the reason there is so much animosity now. We were all (most fans I'm guessing) scratching our heads watching a very drawn out release schedule for product. Those of us who knew freelancers heard about how hard it was to get paid by CGL. The information we had added up to a fear that Shadowrun wasn't making enough money to fund a robust release schedule.

Then Frank shows up with an accusation that someone has been taking money from the system for years and suddenly all that built up fear and disappointment has a target. We get a name, an MO, practically everything we need to make the conclusion that there is someone responsible for hurting our game. Because we don't have the license, we don't plan or publish books, but as fans we feel like this is our game and frankly without us it would just be a very expensive idea.

Then we see this mass exodus of talent from CGL. That was the most damning bit for me, and the heart of why I asked for info. All this creative talent, people I have come to associate with quality, are now gone. Putting aside the accusations and rumors of who did what, it leaves the impression of a considerable brain drain at CGL.

What I want to know is who and what is going on now. Right now I'm dubious of anything that CGL is about to put out. I'm disinclined to purchase from CGL for two reasons, outrage at the accusations and fear of a loss of quality. One of those you can't do anything about and I respect that. However if things are as rosy as you state they are you could share with us a look at the quality of the work being done. Drop some names we might recognize but not be aware of. Let us look at some of their previous work and show us why you think the line is in such good hands.

Without that all we have is smoke and marketing spin. People could be nicer about how they say it, but at this point I don't expect people to call a duck anything but a duck. I'm not asking for finished product, or previews, but that would be nice. Whatever happens with the game it's in your hands now and you've stated that work is moving forward. Let us speculate on that work rather than take shots in the dark on the quality and if anything will ever be published again with the CGL badge. At this point we have nothing but ammo and time.

You have to understand the problems you present in this post, though. Here, and in other places, the basic tenor has been "In the absence of other information, we have to assume the worst." I'm not sure why that is, but I'll set that aside for a moment. Then you ask for names of people working on products, after saying that you are poised to assume the worst.

It may be protective of me, but I have no desire to expose the freelancers who are working for me to a bunch of negativity. I've already seen it happen, and it upsets me greatly. There are freelancers who have a lot of experience with SR, and freelancers who are in the early stages of working for SR. These are people who love SR, who play SR, and who want to find more ways to be involved with SR, which I find totally understandable. Many of them have said a thing or two in the forums--take a look at the Who's Who on Dumpshock thread for some of their names. Some of them have been given poor receptions here and on other forums--not for any work that they have done, but simply because they are new. As I said, that makes me reluctant to just throw names around, because it's not fair to them. If you have misgivings about who is writing Shadowrun, take it out on me. I'm more comfortable with that.

There will, of course, be previews of products as they are ready. Before all this happened, Corp Guide was in its final proofing stages. The great majority of what needs to be rewritten for that book is done, so I'll work to get previews up as soon as possible.

As far as the release schedule goes, there are many, many reasons products get delayed. Finances are only one of them. Missed deadlines, slow editors (I only say that because I was one sometimes), emergencies on one project taking time from another project, and real life interference all play a role in getting projects out, and all of those have played a role in occasionally delaying Catalyst's production schedule. In recent months, though, Running Wild streeted Sept. 25, Seattle 2072 streeted Nov. 10, Vice streeted on Feb. 23; and Dawn of the Artifacts 2 was on the verge of hitting its street date when the current troubles held it up. In the PDF realm, we had 3 Missions released in recent months, along with 10 Jackpointers, 10 Gangs, and some reprints. Is it the ideal pace? Not yet. Are things coming out fairly regularly? I think so, and I hope to get beyond the current problems and return to regular releases.

Jason H.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

I've never seen Shadowrun at a point where it can attract and maintain the fan base that it does right now.

FASA sales were larger during 3rd edition, however with the drop off the entire industry has seen I can't say that SR sales would have stayed where they were. You don't see half your retail outlets close up shop without sales being affected across the board.

[augmentin]

You have to understand the problems you present in this post, though. Here, and in other places, the basic tenor has been "In the absence of other information, we have to assume the worst." I'm not sure why that is, but I'll set that aside for a moment.

Jason H.

Two reasons:
1) human nature to assume the worst about others (while assuming the best about ourselves and our friends/family)
2) Faction A is saying that Faction B kicks puppies and eats babies. Faction B is saying we can't talk about it, but things are good. Don't assume the worst. So naturally, many dumpshockers assume the worst.

You're in a very challenging PR position. It would make an interesting case study in the effects of internet forums on pr crisis management.

[imperialus]

I agree. The new Seattle book was extremely disappointing. Entire sections were simply lifted whole from previous Seattle sourcebooks. The same goes with some of the "setting" locations: Feral City's write up for Lagos leaned heavily on Cyberpirates!, for example. Continuity is nice, of course, but frankly the parts of the new books I liked were the ones that had already been written for previous editions. I haven't looked at Vice yet, but i'm told it was disappointing, which I can unfortunately see based on recent releases.

I like Catalyst for cleaning up the rules. I'm not so enthused by their other work, however.

Hrm... Not sure I have the same take on this as you. I thought Seattle 2072 was pretty darn good. Sure there are some repetitive bits, I mean every Seattle sourcebook is going to have a writeup on Club Penumbra (an entry I picked largely at random) but just from comparing the entries on Penumbra from Seattle, New Seattle and Seattle 2072 you do get a real sense of how things have changed for the club. In Seattle Club P's entry was all about how it was the hottest place in the plex for runners to find work. In New Seattle, it was about how the Renraku Archeology incident meant that it was overrrun with off duty Renraku security and Metroplex Guard. Not exactly the sort of place a runner would want to look for work. In Seattle 2072 it's about how it's a piece of 'living history' complete with 'retro 49' nights.

Besides, every edition really does need a Seattle sourcebook. After all, new players need to pick up the setting information somewhere.

[Ol' Scratch]

Personally, I think all the attempts at PR is the real source of the problem. I'd just ignore things and dismiss it like I would any other ranting and raving on the Internet, and instead focus on the people who matter through private channels. <shrugs> But hey, the fact that it's still going on and nothing interesting, useful, or even potentially helpful results are occurring makes for some decent reading while I enjoy my popcorn.

[augmentin]

Except neither CGL, Post-Human, or even White Jesus get to make that decision. It's based off of Topps. Topps made, IMO, a good decision moving it to CGL, and that suggests to me there's some sense of what makes Shadowrun a good product (so I'm really not worried about a d20 version), but they're still a business selling things to the highest bidder. No offense to Adam, but I'd be surprised if Post-Human could afford the license.

What about Jewish Jesus?

(relatively) More seriously: How does that work? Is the initial license payment a prepayment of royalties? If so [begin "rampant speculation:"], if Ira Friedman, VP of Licensing and Publication, or whoever makes these decisions, might make the decision to forgo a large initial liquidity event in return for greater profit over the life of the license. In that scenario, Posthuman could get the license. Topps is a privately held company, so we have no idea what their current cash position is. Michael Eisener is both chairman and an owner, so I think you can safely assume they are well run.

Hey, let's start a dumpshock letter writing campaign. You know, the kind with paper, ink, and a stamp. Tell Topps your opinion of who should get or keep the license:

Topps US
401 York Avenue
Duryea, PA 18642