CGL Speculation #5, It continues Options

[Delarn]

I mean it's nice to speculate that Adam will swoop in and save the line from dark strangers. But Adam is an actual person with thoughts, opinions and free will (and also, it appears, a healthy sense of discretion).

I always tought Adam was living in the Matrix ! A Free Ultima Sprite (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Warlordtheft]

I agree. The new Seattle book was extremely disappointing. Entire sections were simply lifted whole from previous Seattle sourcebooks. The same goes with some of the "setting" locations: Feral City's write up for Lagos leaned heavily on Cyberpirates!, for example. Continuity is nice, of course, but frankly the parts of the new books I liked were the ones that had already been written for previous editions. I haven't looked at Vice yet, but i'm told it was disappointing, which I can unfortunately see based on recent releases.

I like Catalyst for cleaning up the rules. I'm not so enthused by their other work, however.

I got it and found alot of good new material. Sure some of it was from the previous books, but I expect that. New players may not have access to the previous books and need the info too.

[nezumi]

So AH is a thousand monkeys on a thousand data terminals, and ADAM is a prototype expert system.

The question is, are they GOOD systems, or BAD ones (and if the latter, should we assume everything in Shadowrun is them spreading disinformation).

Meanwhile, someone needs to get working on a SQL injection attack to reprogram ADAM to secure our shadowrun materials.

[augmentin]

But I believe he mentioned it was speculation. What he did quote was $600k stolen, and saying then that the actual value of the license would clearly be larger than that. I believe it was him specifically who speculated $1M, but again, it was just speculation. I haven't seen anyone give a hard number, and several people have said specifically they know the hard number, but are not at liberty to share. So all we can say is...

$600k was lost from this line + battletech over 3 years, and that was not significant enough to sink the line (at least not yet!) Which suggestins that that is probably not MORE than the value of the license, and likely significantly less.


Don't get me wrong, I think we'd all be happy for Adam to take it over. However:
1) No one has asked Adam if HE wants to. He has a new baby to work on, remember.
2) No one asked Adam if, right now, he is able to take on that amount of work.
3) No one asked Adam if he is able to pay what Topps is asking.

I mean it's nice to speculate that Adam will swoop in and save the line from dark strangers. But Adam is an actual person with thoughts, opinions and free will (and also, it appears, a healthy sense of discretion).

[not sure how to quote a locked thread...] "I estimate that between pre-royalties, labor, and printing costs, that getting Shadowrun started up again with a year of reasonably timed releases would cost roughly half a million dollars. And it would make that back rather easily in that year if distributors could be convinced to hire on. Selling 50,000 books from five or six titles ain't no big thing for a new edition of Shadowrun with the interest generated by a grand reopening. And distributors are interested in this product because it will sell. For money. Right in the middle of the hell storm, PSI added Catalyst to their friends list. If Loren Coleman wasn't in full paranoia mode in his tower of crimson tape, he'd probably be able to shell out that kind of start-up money from his pocket. In cash. Assuming of course that Topps would take him back, which I have difficulty imagining them doing." -The artist formerly known as Permaban

RE: Sentient InDesign CS12 expert program ADAM:
What would you like to see happen with the SR license?

[JongWK]

I got it and found alot of good new material. Sure some of it was from the previous books, but I expect that. New players may not have access to the previous books and need the info too.

Folks who think Seattle 2072 has a lot of old material should take a good look at Seattle and New Seattle. The latter has entire sections taken from the original book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Demonseed Elite]

RE: Sentient InDesign CS12 expert program ADAM:
What would you like to see happen with the SR license?

I doubt you'll get an answer from Adam on this one!

[Endroren]

Adam is like SCIRE. Advanced Document Adjustment Machine. A FASA effort to automate book layout that achieved sentience due to some unforeseen X-factor.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Maybe I'll be in breach of my NDA, but as a CGL freelancer I can assure you that this is completely true. What isn't clear is whether he just uploaded himself directly to the Posthuman servers under the noses of the CGL spiders, or if he first uploaded pieces of himself directly into our brains via our Dumpshock accounts and is currently running as a distributed system on our collective wetware.

[augmentin]

I doubt you'll get an answer from Adam on this one!

Probably not, but I'm hoping for a witty reply.

[Adam]

What would you like to see happen with the SR license?

Are you expecting any answer other than: I want Shadowrun to have a kick-ass publisher that raises the bar and treats one of the coolest gaming settings ever with the respect it deserves, both in terms of games/books/other wicked stuff and in a business sense. Because if you were, well, I guess I have to disappoint you sometime, and that time is now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[MYST1C]

I got it and found alot of good new material. Sure some of it was from the previous books, but I expect that. New players may not have access to the previous books and need the info too.

I've been playing SR since the early days of 2nd Edition and Seattle 2072 is the first Seattle book I bought. Why? Being German I've played almost exclusively in the AGS setting.
Yet two reasons made me buy Seattle 2072: First, it looks great and I heard favorable things about it. Second, it wasn't (and won't be) translated to German (instead we got an overhauled and updated Seattle entry in the recent Runner Havens re-release).
I haven't read much of it yet but I like it so far. Of course, someone who knows the earlier books will recognize stuff but not someone who's new to the Seattle setting.


Of course, it can't beat the IMHO ultimate city sourcebook ever released, Cyberpunk 2020's Night City Sourcebook, but then those two books were written following fairly different concepts.

[augmentin]

Are you expecting any answer other than: I want Shadowrun to have a kick-ass publisher that raises the bar and treats one of the coolest gaming settings ever with the respect it deserves, both in terms of games/books/other wicked stuff and in a business sense. Because if you were, well, I guess I have to disappoint you sometime, and that time is now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well met. It was worth a go anyway.

[Wesley Street]

Of course, it can't beat the IMHO ultimate city sourcebook ever released, Cyberpunk 2020's Night City Sourcebook, but then those two books were written following fairly different concepts.

Someone needs to write up a compare/contrast piece on Night City and Seattle Sourcebook as those two seem to be the most heralded (post)cyberpunk setting books.

*strokes chin thoughtfully...*

[hermit]

Yet two reasons made me buy Seattle 2072: First, it looks great and I heard favorable things about it. Second, it wasn't (and won't be) translated to German (instead we got an overhauled and updated Seattle entry in the recent Runner Havens re-release).

It is out already? Hrm. I might want to get it since my old FanPro book is degrading rapidly.

Also, it is hardbound, and thus, durable. It stands out between all the Pegasus books, but it is pretty in it's own right.

[Octopiii]

Hrm... Not sure I have the same take on this as you. I thought Seattle 2072 was pretty darn good. Sure there are some repetitive bits, I mean every Seattle sourcebook is going to have a writeup on Club Penumbra (an entry I picked largely at random) but just from comparing the entries on Penumbra from Seattle, New Seattle and Seattle 2072 you do get a real sense of how things have changed for the club. In Seattle Club P's entry was all about how it was the hottest place in the plex for runners to find work. In New Seattle, it was about how the Renraku Archeology incident meant that it was overrrun with off duty Renraku security and Metroplex Guard. Not exactly the sort of place a runner would want to look for work. In Seattle 2072 it's about how it's a piece of 'living history' complete with 'retro 49' nights.

Besides, every edition really does need a Seattle sourcebook. After all, new players need to pick up the setting information somewhere.

Yes, every edition needs a Seattle book. We had Runner Havens for 4th edition - yes, it was probably too short, but it's there. Some two(?) years later Catalyst decides to do some minor (and I do mean minor) updates to the world, and we get S2072, where there are a few minor changes and most everything is static from either Runner Havens' update or New Seattle. I was excited, as the write up in Runner Havens wasn't terribly interesting, only to find most everything is the same even within the same edition.

[TomDowd]

Someone just alerted me to the status of things, so I thought I would drop by, give a brief wave, and say that I wish everyone involved, and the franchise, well. I know how difficult the economics of the RPG publishing world can be without unfortunate complications, deliberate or ignorant, and I hope that CGL can pull through and continue to publish the quality product that they have for their time on the license. And if they cannot, I thank them for their wonderful efforts and hope that whomever picks up the Shadowrun license does well by it and it by them.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that back in 1988 when I was writing the original first edition manuscript on my Apple ][e I would never have predicted that twenty-two years on (OMG!) Shadowrun would continue to have such an active existence. It just simply remarkable, and the only reason it has is because of the talent of those writers and editors and artists who followed on after me and the dedication and persistence of its fan base.

I've been waay out of the Shadowrun loop for some time now, and though Adam Jury - bless him - tried to drag me back in not long ago I just could not make it work with my current schedule and focus. Maybe someday... things are a little less crazy even now... but man there would be a lot of reading to catch up on...

Anyway, good luck to Jason Hardy and everyone at CGL, good luck to the license, and thanks to everyone who's hung in there for all these years. I am confident Shadowrun will see its 25th anniversary (OMG!) in 2014, dragons or no dragons.

Tom Dowd
Shadowrun co-creator

[Ancient History]

So AH is a thousand monkeys on a thousand data terminals, and ADAM is a prototype expert system.

The question is, are they GOOD systems, or BAD ones (and if the latter, should we assume everything in Shadowrun is them spreading disinformation).

Bad. Definitely, definitely bad.

[JM Hardy]

Thanks very much to Tom Dowd for a kind and gracious post. It's the kind of post where I'm just thrilled he knows my name!

Jason H.

[Cardul]

Thanks very much to Tom Dowd for a kind and gracious post. It's the kind of post where I'm just thrilled he knows my name!

Jason H.

You know...seeing a living legend drop in to post is one of those amazing things. It is if Manowar, Rush, or Meat Loaf
dropped by to say hello. *hmms* Actually...I think it is more awesome then that.

[Zolhex]

My jaw dropped.......

I mean Tom Dowd the man who co worte Shadowrun 1st edtion and the only listed writer of 2nd edtion just posted it's been what 10+ years?

This is historic.

[X-Kalibur]

We're obviously not worthy.

[Bull]

Well... Huh. Cool. Thanks Tom!

[BlueMax]

I just had a nerdgasm. Thanks Tom.

BlueMax

[augmentin]

[Breaks arm patting self on back:]

I may be the one responsible for engaging Mr. Dowdy.
Many thanks to Adam for pointing me in the right direction.

Anyone think when Trollman started this whole thing that we'd get such an honored guest to make a cameo?

[knasser]

Someone just alerted me to the status of things, so I thought I would drop by, give a brief wave, and say that I wish everyone involved, and the franchise, well. I know how difficult the economics of the RPG publishing world can be without unfortunate complications, deliberate or ignorant, and I hope that CGL can pull through and continue to publish the quality product that they have for their time on the license. And if they cannot, I thank them for their wonderful efforts and hope that whomever picks up the Shadowrun license does well by it and it by them.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that back in 1988 when I was writing the original first edition manuscript on my Apple ][e I would never have predicted that twenty-two years on (OMG!) Shadowrun would continue to have such an active existence. It just simply remarkable, and the only reason it has is because of the talent of those writers and editors and artists who followed on after me and the dedication and persistence of its fan base.

I've been waay out of the Shadowrun loop for some time now, and though Adam Jury - bless him - tried to drag me back in not long ago I just could not make it work with my current schedule and focus. Maybe someday... things are a little less crazy even now... but man there would be a lot of reading to catch up on...

Anyway, good luck to Jason Hardy and everyone at CGL, good luck to the license, and thanks to everyone who's hung in there for all these years. I am confident Shadowrun will see its 25th anniversary (OMG!) in 2014, dragons or no dragons.

Tom Dowd
Shadowrun co-creator

Sooooo many memories of the 1st and 2nd editions. THANK YOU for your work. We've been enjoying it all this time ever since!

Khadim.

[Dread Moores]

Adam is like SCIRE. Advanced Document Adjustment Machine. A FASA effort to automate book layout that achieved sentience due to some unforeseen X-factor.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Jesus was a robot? Huh...didn't see that one coming.

Edit: Tom Dowd is even more awesome than I previously thought. And I really didn't think that was possible to exceed previous levels of coolness, particularly regarding my completely inappropriate love for Night's Pawn and Burning Bright.