Infected Heights and Weights Options

[Whipstitch]

They don't have to all be poor for malnutrition to skew the numbers lower. Look, I'm not saying that if everyone had the same meals everyone would all be the same height or some such nonsense. Some populations are shorter, although the distribution patterns tend to be closer together than a cursory glance at the average might imply. But India is a pretty poor example given that the men who live there average around 5'7" despite being ranked as having the 2nd worst malnutrition problem on the planet by the World Bank. There's people living there in crushing poverty and there's people there who aren't, and some of the latter group have people who are either markedly above average or are well within the common US distribution pattern. For example, Kal Penn, the Indian American actor is almost painfully average for the US at 5'9" and the Indian professional wrestler Dalip Singh is a 7 footer. You'd honestly be better off citing the Japanese or something.

[Pepsi Jedi]

My point was that Americans WERE in fact taller than the world average. Not much deeper than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And yeah. Asians on average, are a bit shorter than Americans on Average. But then alot of what you said about India can be said about China as well. Just different expressions.

[Whipstitch]

I understand that, which is why I went ahead and built upon your earlier statement since I thought it painted a bit of an incomplete picture. Yes, Americans are taller than average, but they're suddenly not so unusual once you only compare them to other nations with a similar standard of living-- Canadians, Australians and the Dutch are all above average as well. Ethnic groups from poor areas have this funny habit of attaining higher average heights within a generation or two of acquiring better health care, sanitation and food availability. I mean, hell, I'm of Mexican descent and I'm just barely below 5'9" and I'm the shortest male in my extended family by far, aside from my grandfather who was only 5'4" and grew up in poverty. All of my cousins and uncles are 6 foot plus and the average height of a Mexican American is a full 3 inches taller than that of an average Mexican living in Mexico.

This is not to say that Mexico is secretly a nation of malnourished giants or something, but nevertheless living conditions are something I keep in mind when deciding just how big some of my NPCs (particularly orks and trolls) might be. Perhaps metatypes are slightly more homogeneous than standard humans are, but it's not inconceivable to think that a well-fed troll with the right genes could be REALLY fraggin' big. After all, many orks and trolls come of age while squatting out in the Barrens. Healthcare and three squares a day just isn't Shadowrun, so it's actually a bit possible that fate is selling the trogs short. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah if you follow the link in Patricks post a page back, he has an article on that exact sort of thing, and if you read though it fully he has rules for basicly. 'Tall trolls' or 'short orcs' and such in there.

Lots of numbers but it's well thought out and well put together.

[Machiavelli]

I'm also 6'3" or so, but that 175 cm figure is a worldwide average. Americans can really skew the average.

MUAHAHAHA...yeah right. Because Americans are the only well-fed industrialized humans in the world.^^ Does continents like europe exist on US-maps or are they just "white spots" with the marking of "little people"?^^

[Pepsi Jedi]

When you compare them to other places they can skew the average.

Patrick wasn't saying that we're the only well fed industrialized humans in the world. Just that we can blow an average.

Average American Male over 20 years of age is 5 foot 9 and a half inches

Argentina 5'3"

Bahrain 5'5"

Gambia 5'6"

India 5'5" (( a bit shorter than I guessed))

Indonesia 5'2"

Iraq 5'5"

Japan 4'11"

Malaysia 5'5"

Mexico 5'4"

Nigeria 5'4 and a half

Peru 5'4" and a half

Philippines 5'3" and half

Vietnam 5'4"



So it's not like we're short. Humorously enough, we're not the tallest.

Denmark claims 5'11"

Finland 5'11"

Germany claims 5'11 and a half. but that's self reported. And we know guy inches aren't quite the same things that show up on rulers.

Sweden sports a nice 5'11" and a half.


So we're not the tallest. But we're on up there. There's ALOT more shorter than there is taller. With only 4 or 5 countries that come in above us.

[Larsine]

Americans can really skew the average.

Especially when it comes to weight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

Lars

[Pepsi Jedi]

*grins* I think I mentioned that. lol

[toturi]

I think this discussion is also pertinent with respect to other physical aspects. Depending on how you peg your "average" benchmarks, you might find that people with 1s in their attributes are not necessarily physical cripples.

[Bull]

Especially when it comes to weight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

Lars

Lets not talk about that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm 6 foot even. ANd I'm about average for most of the guys I hang with. A couple shorter, a couple taller, many around my height.

But as I said, the less said about weight, the better. *sigh*

Bull

[Patrick Goodman]

Especially when it comes to weight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

Yup.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I've always thought it was fun to play stereotype breakers. But not to the point that I never play to the stereotype. Sometimes it seems like people never want to play the 'norm'.

A 'tallish' (( relatively) Dwarf, or a "Short Troll" or the like can be fun now and then. Just don't get annoying about it. I've played two Orcs that had full body dye jobs to have green skin.

[Whipstitch]

Patrick wasn't saying that we're the only well fed industrialized humans in the world. Just that we can blow an average.

Yeah, it's not like what Patrick was saying necessarily implies that he doesn't pay attention to the rest of the world. It's kind of a stretch to flame him for such an implication when you consider that he said what he said precisely because he was looking at global numbers. My earlier comments were simply to make clear that the height of Americans is a factor of our environment as much as anything-- It's tough to guess with any accuracy whether a caucasian or an african will be taller if they both happen to be from the same part of Seattle. It's a good distinction to keep in mind when you're bsing up some numbers for Joe NPC.

[Patrick Goodman]

I feel like I should point out that all of these heights and weights are for baseline metaspecies that get Infected; I haven't run the numbers with the metavariants from Runner's Companion yet. That would probably be an interesting exercise....

So...metavariants. Let me tell ya, that's a lot of numbers to run, and when you run those numbers and then SCREW UP YOUR SPREADSHEET and have to repair lots of cell references...it's not fun sometimes. But the results may be worth it.

First, here's the average heights and weights for the metavariants, with inch and pound conversions for the metric-challenged. Next post will be the Infected versions (and there's a truckload); those will have to wait until I finish formatting the table for forum posting.

CODE

Race          Height (cm)  Weight (kg)  Height (in)  Weight (lb)
Cyclops       270          421          106            926
Dryad         175           63           69            139
Fomori        235          224           92            493
Giant         300          467          118          1,027
Gnome          80           37           31             81
Haruman       120           49           47            108
Hobgogblin    180           98           71            216
Koborokuru    110           42           43             92
Menehune      110           42           43             92
Minotaur      240          265           94            583
Nartaki       175           86           69            189
Night One     190           80           75            176
Ogre          170          101           67            222
Oni           190          128           75            282
Satyr         160           69           63            152
Wakyambi      230          145           90            319
Xapiri Thëpë  170           57           67            125

[Patrick Goodman]

Okay, there a couple of lessons I learned in the course of this particular part of my exercise.

1. Save more frequently. That way, when you mess something up, it's easier to fix.

2. Cell references can be fragile. You'd think after all these years I'd remember this sorta thing, but occasionally....

3. Sorting in spreadsheets can be bad. See #2 above.

Anyway, I think I've got all the various permutations of metaspecies, metavariants, and Infected expressions dealt with now, so I hope that this proves useful to someone. Any questions, as always, please feel free to ask.

CODE

Critter                   Height (cm)  Weight (kg)  Height (in)  Weight (lb)
Banshee (Dryad)           175           57           69            125
Banshee (Night One)       190           72           75            158
Banshee (Wakyambi)        230          131           90            287
Banshee (Xapiri Thëpë)    170           51           67            113
Dzoo-noo-qua (Cyclops)    270          552          106          1,213
Dzoo-noo-qua (Fomori)     235          293           92            646
Dzoo-noo-qua (Giant)      300          612          118          1,346
Dzoo-noo-qua (Minotaur)   240          113           94            248
Fomóraig (Cyclops)        308          674          121          1,482
Fomóraig (Fomori)         268          358          105            788
Fomóraig (Giant)          342          747          134          1,644
Fomóraig (Minotaur)       274          424          108            933
Ghoul (Cyclops)           270          488          106          1,074
Ghoul (Dryad)             175           73           69            161
Ghoul (Fomori)            235          260           92            572
Ghoul (Giant)             300          542          118          1,192
Ghoul (Gnome)              80           43           31             94
Ghoul (Haruman)           120           57           47            125
Ghoul (Hobgoblin)         180          114           71            250
Ghoul (Koborokuru)        110           49           43            107
Ghoul (Menehune)          110           49           43            107
Ghoul (Minotaur)          240          307           94            676
Ghoul (Nartaki)           175          100           69            219
Ghoul (Night One)         190           93           75            204
Ghoul (Ogre)              170          117           67            258
Ghoul (Oni)               190          148           75            327
Ghoul (Satyr)             160           80           63            176
Ghoul (Wakyambi)          230          168           90            370
Ghoul (Xapiri Thëpë)      170           66           67            145
Gnawer (Gnome)             80           43           31             95
Gnawer (Haruman)          120           57           47            126
Gnawer (Koborokuru)       110           49           43            108
Gnawer (Menehune)         110           49           43            108
Goblin (Gnome)             80           31           31             68
Goblin (Haruman)          120           41           47             91
Goblin (Koborokuru)       110           35           43             78
Goblin (Menehune)         110           35           43             78
Grendel (Hobgoblin)       189          134           74            295
Grendel (Ogre)            179          138           70            304
Grendel (Oni)             200          175           78            386
Grendel (Satyr)           168           95           66            208
Harvester (Dryad)         175           83           69            183
Harvester (Night One)     190          106           75            232
Harvester (Wakyambi)      230          191           90            421
Harvester (Xapiri Thëpë)  170           75           67            166
Loup-garou (Nartaki)      175          117           69            257
Mutaqua (Cyclops)         270          619          106          1,362
Mutaqua (Fomori)          235          329           92            724
Mutaqua (Giant)           300          686          118          1,510
Mutaqua (Minotaur)        240          390           94            857
Nosferatu (Nartaki)       175           77           69            170
Vampire (Nartaki)         175           86           69            189
Wendigo (Hobgoblin)       218          136           86            300
Wendigo (Ogre)            206          141           81            309
Wendigo (Oni)             230          178           90            392
Wendigo (Satyr)           194           96           76            211

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'd like to give a formal thank you, for the time and effort put into this.

Thanks man!