Technomancers and the Living Persona, Is there a possibility for addiction? Options

[Banaticus]

The Living Persona Table defines the ratings for a technomancer’s living persona. None of the attributes of this persona may exceed a technomancer’s Resonance rating (so a technomancer with Resonance 3 and Willpower 5 has a living persona Firewall of 3, not 5). When technomancers immerse themselves in full VR, they are always considered to be running with hot sim (p. 226); the speed bonus for hot sim is already calculated into their Response and Initiative.

Technomancers in VR via their living persona always use hot sim.
Hot sim can be as addictive as BTL use (Substance Abuse, p. 256). If the gamemaster feels a character is using hot sim too much, she can call for an Addiction Test.

So, do technomancers get a +2 dice bonus to all Matrix tests for free? Is there a possibility of addiction? Do technomancers always use their living persona or is it a concious choice to do so?

[Kerenshara]

By definition, they are always Hot Sim, which has a potential for addiction similar (but less intense) than a BTL. That's straight out of Unwired. And the can only interact via a conventional avatar (rather than the Living Persona) by using a normal comlink w/ a completely duplicative set of skills (Read: Hacking ™ and Hacking (Normal)).

[Banaticus]

So the only way for a Technomancer to avoid becoming addicted to their Matrix use is to either not do what they essentially live for or to pay double for everything and buy duplicate programs and complex forms for everything? That seems unnecessarily harsh, like possibly giving a mage focus addiction just for casting normal spells.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As far as I can tell, there is nothing that says that a Technomancer cannot use AR, they would just not get the bonus...
And besides, otherwise it is very hard for them to do anything, as their penalties to do anything while in VR would completely cripple them...

Keep the Faith

[Kerenshara]

Um, don't take what I said that strictly. The idea, like Tymeaus Jalynsfein said above, is to have the TM spend most of their time in the meat world simply interacting "intuitively" by AR. If you haven't read Unwired (the fluff sections) pertaining to Technomancers, I strongly suggest you do so. It had a LOT of good flavor. And they also have a section about a eScapist (it's a Stream) and their apparent addiction to the Matrix, which they consider more real than the meat world, to the point they have an eating disorder. The average Decker does the majority of their simple work in AR, only going VR for things requiring more close interaction (and I am referring to this from the perspective of "percent of the waking day"). If your 'Mancer (or Decker for that matter, since it's brought up in another section with similar injunctions) is spending all their game time remote via telepresence using Hot VR, then you need to let them start feeling the starting signs of addiction. If they don't get the hint, then they deserve what they get. The exact same goes for Focus Addiction. The mechanic provided isn't meant to be a hard-line restriction, but more of a guideline to let the GM know when the player is starting to get (habitually) into dangerous territory.

And remember, at the lowest levels, mild addictions are easily written off by the character, and it's not that difficult (unless it's a really powerful substance like a BtL or NovaCoke) to keep from progressing to the next stages unless you have poor WILlpower (and the player is a willful idiot).

It's not really something you need to harp on beyond making sure your player is aware of the "feeling" it can give the character to be in Hot Sim - the direct comparison to BtL should get your point across nicely - before you start; Most players will take the hint and keep it from getting stupid.

I hope that's helpful. Everything in moderation is the rule... and that goes for GM nannying as well.

[Banaticus]

And besides, otherwise it is very hard for them to do anything, as their penalties to do anything while in VR would completely cripple them...

What penalties?

The idea, like Tymeaus Jalynsfein said above, is to have the TM spend most of their time in the meat world simply interacting "intuitively" by AR.

Does it take extra time or actions to slip into virtual reality instead?

And they also have a section about a eScapist (it's a Stream)

I'm not seeing the word eScapist in Unwired, but I did find the section on the girl with the eating disorder on p133.

Thanks you two -- feel free to respond more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Kerenshara]

What penalties?

Does it take extra time or actions to slip into virtual reality instead?

I'm not seeing the word eScapist in Unwired, but I did find the section on the girl with the eating disorder on p133.

Thanks you two -- feel free to respond more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

e-Scapists, Unwired P.138
Not all technomancers are deeply rooted in the real world. With the Sixth World being an inhospitable place for a lot of people in the ’70s, some technomancers, called e-scapists or sculptors, consider cyberspace a better world that users can shape into their own utopias. Although still bound by their mortal bodies, e-scapists try to escape reality as often as possible, embracing virtual reality wholeheartedly as the only world where they truly fit in. As the real world becomes a second home (viewing their real lives as virtual avatars like those used in the first decade of the 21st century) with a body that can be easily discarded to venture the depths of virtual reality, e-scapists excel in creating virtual environments and achieving wonders with creativity and imagination. Sprites are envisioned as true companions with their own personalities and tend to take unique forms that are reported to be more “alive” than those of other technomancers.

And as to slipping into VR, a 'Mancer doesn't have to bring up their Complex Forms (if I read the rules correctly), as they are "always on" unless they will them not to be, which makes it many times easier to go VR than for a Decker who has to load programs in sqeuence. It's not the logon for a Decker that's time consuming - it's bringing up their programs.

That help any?

[Banaticus]

So a technomancer can slip back and forth between AR and VR whenever with no penalty or action required to switch?

[Kerenshara]

You're going to make me look up if it's a complex or a simple action to log in? OK, hold on. *grin* Gods bless PDFs.

[Edit: Added below quotes]

Complex Action - Log On (System): SR4A, P.131
You open a subscription to a node, and your icon appears there. This requires no test, but does require either the proper authentication to an account (such as a passcode) or a hacked account. You also need a connection to the node’s device, either with a wired connection or a wireless connection (by being within mutual Signal range or establishing a route across multiple devices).

And

Free Action - Switch Interface Mode (System): SR4A, P.229
You switch your perception from AR to VR or vice versa. Note that switching to VR causes your body to go limp, so do not do it in dangerous places. If you switch from VR to AR, you might lose one or more Initiative Passes (p. 145). If your connection is jammed open by a black IC attack (SR4A, p. 237), you cannot switch interface modes.

That what you were asking?

[Banaticus]

Thanks, really appreciate that.

[Kerenshara]

Thanks, really appreciate that.

Null sweat. Happy to help. Thats what we're supposed to be here for. Many's the time where I stopped banging my head against the wall long enough to ask a question here which got me fixed up quick-like. It's Karma, so far as I'm concerned. *grin*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What penalties?

While in VR, if you want to do anything in the Meat World you have a -6 to do so... makes it kind of difficult for the Character to accomplish much... Technomancers and Hackers have the same issues in VR... though the Technomancer is generally more powerful there, and does not have an inherent need for a RAS override, becuse he does not have that hardware to override, as it were... but the fact is, he would still be trying to interact with the Matrix at the same time he is trying to act in the Meat... this is very difficult to do...

My Solution has always been to use AR primarily, with VR ONLY when absolutely necessary...

I have yet to see Technomancers treated any differently than Hackers when it comes to the VR/Meat Interactions issue...

Hope that means anything... it is kind of jumbled...

Keep the Faith

[Kerenshara]

While in VR, if you want to do anything in the Meat World you have a -6 to do so... makes it kind of difficult for the Character to accomplish much... Technomancers and Hackers have the same issues in VR... though the Technomancer is generally more powerful there, and does not have an inherent need for a RAS override, becuse he does not have that hardware to override, as it were... but the fact is, he would still be trying to interact with the Matrix at the same time he is trying to act in the Meat... this is very difficult to do...

My Solution has always been to use AR primarily, with VR ONLY when absolutely necessary...

I have yet to see Technomancers treated any differently than Hackers when it comes to the VR/Meat Interactions issue...

Hope that means anything... it is kind of jumbled...

Keep the Faith

Of course, then they can take the Multiprocessing Echo and Macro twice, and they fundtion normally in both, and with double-Overclocking, they get 5 passes. Up to four in meat space and always a fifth reserved for VR. But we're talking four Echoes, and if you go with Biowire and the meat-speed bumps, that jumps to eight. Eight Echoes is a PILE of Karma that's not improving Resonance or CFs. And you don't have the durability of a Sammy.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Of course, then they can take the Multiprocessing Echo and Macro twice, and they fundtion normally in both, and with double-Overclocking, they get 5 passes. Up to four in meat space and always a fifth reserved for VR. But we're talking four Echoes, and if you go with Biowire and the meat-speed bumps, that jumps to eight. Eight Echoes is a PILE of Karma that's not improving Resonance or CFs. And you don't have the durability of a Sammy.

Indeed it is... It ain't ever cheap to be the best in the Matrix...

Keep the Faith

[Sengir]

Of course, then they can take the Multiprocessing Echo and Macro twice, and they fundtion normally in both, and with double-Overclocking, they get 5 passes. Up to four in meat space and always a fifth reserved for VR.

Huh?
- Multiprocessing lets you keep an eye on several nodes at once
- Macro gives you another complex action per IP, limited to non-combat matrix actions and with a -2 modifier. And it can only be taken once
- Overclocking + Advanced OC gives you +2 Response and two extra IPs in VR
None of this gives you any advantages in the meat world, although you could probably argue the multiprocessing echo has some effect outside the matrix.


As far as addiction goes...can one be addicted to a natural sense?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

By RAW, you can become addicted to Hot Sim VR and since TMs always enter VR that way, so can they.

[Triggvi]

Technomancers when they go VR are considered to be hot sim. They are not actually hot sim. This is there natural state. So no Addiction problem for TM's. Having them get addicted to it is like having a mage addicted to astral projection.

Acceleration Echo (3) gives extra +3 reaction and +3 IP in meat space, but not matrix.
Overclocking + Double Overclocking is only in VR not in meat space.
Multiprocessing doesn't allow you extra IP in meat space. It allows you to move at your Matrix initiative with out the extra IP's

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Technomancers when they go VR are considered to be hot sim. They are not actually hot sim.

Uhm… and why would the rules reference hot sim, then?

[Banaticus]

Technomancers when they go VR are considered to be hot sim. They are not actually hot sim. This is there natural state. So no Addiction problem for TM's. Having them get addicted to it is like having a mage addicted to astral projection.

Did you see Kerenshara's post and my post up above? See p133 Unwired for a few stories about how near-constant VR has affected a few different technomancers. Hot sim VR is "realer than real" and that's the way the Matrix always is to a technomancer.

For an addict, our real world is just the dream world where they have to find a new vein and change catheters before plugging back in. (There was another story about that somewhere.)

Luckily, they can choose to go AR without their Living Persona. They won't have their +2 dice bonus to everything in the Matrix and they'll only have 2 IP in the Matrix, but at least there's no chance of addiction and you don't pass out when you go online (although you might get distracted by outside sounds/senses).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Huh?
- Multiprocessing lets you keep an eye on several nodes at once
- Macro gives you another complex action per IP, limited to non-combat matrix actions and with a -2 modifier. And it can only be taken once
- Overclocking + Advanced OC gives you +2 Response and two extra IPs in VR
None of this gives you any advantages in the meat world, although you could probably argue the multiprocessing echo has some effect outside the matrix.

As far as addiction goes...can one be addicted to a natural sense?

Edit: Apparently Triggvi posted some of this above...

- Multiprocessing grants an extra Observe In Detail Action, as well as the ability to monitor multiple nodes at once...
- I believe that Kerenshara might have been referring to Acceleration, rather than Macro, which grants a Meat pass, and can be taken 3 times for cumulative effect...
- The fact that Overclocking and Acceleration do not stack with each other really sucks for the Technomancer, forcing him to have to purchase both if he wants the benefits if increases actions in the Matrix and Meat worlds... The hacker has it easy as it just requires the purchase of hardware, which is generally easier than expending Karma...
-So for maximum passes in the Meat (4 Passes) and Matrix (5 Passes), you would need to Submerge at least 6 times; 4 for Biowire and 3 levels of Acceleration, and another 2 for Overclocking and Advanced Overclocking... that is a serious drain on Karma just to act a little faster...

The thought that you can be addicted to a natural sense is interesting... for the Hacker, VR Addiction is a real threat to worry about... but sense that is the natural choice for Technomancers, can it be addictive... I would say yes, because it provides the same experience to both, though I might provide a bonus to the resistance of the addiction to the Technomancer...

Definitely Something to look at...

Keep the Faith

[Triggvi]

Did you see Kerenshara's post and my post up above? See p133 Unwired for a few stories about how near-constant VR has affected a few different technomancers. Hot sim VR is "realer than real" and that's the way the Matrix always is to a technomancer.

For an addict, our real world is just the dream world where they have to find a new vein and change catheters before plugging back in. (There was another story about that somewhere.)

Luckily, they can choose to go AR without their Living Persona. They won't have their +2 dice bonus to everything in the Matrix and they'll only have 2 IP in the Matrix, but at least there's no chance of addiction and you don't pass out when you go online (although you might get distracted by outside sounds/senses).

You are thinking of cold sim not AR, but Tm's can do AR, but they can't do cold sim.

Technomancers are always attuned to the matrix, even when they are not in VR. The Matrix is a part of them, they are not whole without it. TM spend hours and hours on the Matrix in meditation and realm searches. There is no where (that I can find) that says that they become BTL junkies. No, they are not BTL addicted. It is like magic to a mage.

No where is there does it even hint that they become BTL addicts.

[Sengir]

Multiprocessing doesn't allow you extra IP in meat space. It allows you to move at your Matrix initiative with out the extra IP's

Mesh reality, not multiprocessing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


@Rotbart and Tymeaus: An addiction needs a stimulus which gives some sort of reward. But if something is just the way things normally go, does that "mormalness" really qualify as a reward? Sure, TMs get edgy or catatonic if they are withdrawn from the matrix - that's just the way humans react to partial sensory deprivation. For example, these rooms with walls which swallow every sound reflection make most people feel uneasy after some time, a few people will even become sick right away. THat does not mean we are addicted to hearing, just that messing with our senses can have any number of psychologic and psychosomatic effects.

Of course hot sim addiction is just one of a huge variety of possible matrix-related addictions, people today also get addicted to the internet or parts thereof without any hot sim. And given their constant contact with the matrix, technomancers will be very suspectible to things like media junkie (quality from unwired), AR porn addiction or excessive MMORPG usage.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Don't confuse TMs getting edgy in the complete "silence" of a dead zone with the addiction to Better-than-Life signal intensity.

[Triggvi]

Mesh reality, not multiprocessing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


@Rotbart and Tymeaus: An addiction needs a stimulus which gives some sort of reward. But if something is just the way things normally go, does that "mormalness" really qualify as a reward? Sure, TMs get edgy or catatonic if they are withdrawn from the matrix - that's just the way humans react to partial sensory deprivation. For example, these rooms with walls which swallow every sound reflection make most people feel uneasy after some time, a few people will even become sick right away. THat does not mean we are addicted to hearing, just that messing with our senses can have any number of psychologic and psychosomatic effects.

Of course hot sim addiction is just one of a huge variety of possible matrix-related addictions, people today also get addicted to the internet or parts thereof without any hot sim. And given their constant contact with the matrix, technomancers will be very suspectible to things like media junkie (quality from unwired), AR porn addiction or excessive MMORPG usage.

You are right about reality mesh. I was lazy and didn't add it.

Of course personality has a lot to do with people. I was commenting that they don't automatically have BTL addiction. They were confusing VR hotsim through a sim module with a TM VR. One is shoving a persons perception to were it wasn't suppose to go in the first place. The other is a natural extention of themselves.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mesh reality, not multiprocessing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

@Rotbart and Tymeaus: An addiction needs a stimulus which gives some sort of reward. But if something is just the way things normally go, does that "mormalness" really qualify as a reward? Sure, TMs get edgy or catatonic if they are withdrawn from the matrix - that's just the way humans react to partial sensory deprivation. For example, these rooms with walls which swallow every sound reflection make most people feel uneasy after some time, a few people will even become sick right away. THat does not mean we are addicted to hearing, just that messing with our senses can have any number of psychologic and psychosomatic effects.

Of course hot sim addiction is just one of a huge variety of possible matrix-related addictions, people today also get addicted to the internet or parts thereof without any hot sim. And given their constant contact with the matrix, technomancers will be very suspectible to things like media junkie (quality from unwired), AR porn addiction or excessive MMORPG usage.

Mesh Reality really is a pretty good state, except for the -4 for Combat/Cybercombat actions if performed simultaneously, though Macro will reduce such penalties (-2 instead of -4)

As for the Addiction reference above...

Understood, there are myriad ways to mimic the addiction of someone who is becomming dependant upon the feed of Hot SIM VR... I am not sure exactly that a Technomancer could be addicted to their natural sense, though they sure act like they are addicted to the feed, as evidenced in the text for Technomancers... and as such, I would go with the fact that they ARE obviously addicted to that feed, but they have no mechanics related to it, because they are always capable of feeling the rush should they want to, and in fact do keep themselves connected 24/7/365 unless someone takes an active attempt to sever that connection... It is very dificult to completely cut a Technomancer off from the Matrix/Resonance... But when you are, they start to go a little crazy...

Seems pretty addictive to me, even if it is a natural state of existence... Hell, you can even make the argument that Sensory Deprivation for extended periods of time has the exact same effect for normal humanity, and it has been shown to cause disorders if pushed to far... So in effect, yes, we ARE addicted to the senses that we possess, for when we are deprived of them, we start to go a little crazy...

And before the obvious counter comes out, yes, you can be a well adjusted individual that is Blind and/or Deaf... For people that have never known that sense, it is very easy to adjust compared to those who have lived with it for a very long time, and then suddenly lose access to something that they have never been without...

Keep the Faith