Technomancers and Mental Attributes, Which Persona Attribute rules actually apply to a living persona? Options

[Drats]

I've been looking at playing my first 'mancer, and after reading up on SR4A, the FAQ, and the Errata, I'm a little lost. It is my understanding that System and Response have absolutely no bearing on the base/max rating of a Technomancer's complex forms (which are limited only by Resonance), but are there any other exceptions I should know about? Does Response still limit System in non-CF-related contexts? Are CFs subject to the rules regarding processor limits?

I understand most of the differences between the way a typical Matrix entity operates and the way a Resonance entity does. What I'm a bit shaky on is the crunchy bits of when and how the rules treat the Living Persona differently than one run on a device, as far as Firewall, System, Response, and Signal are concerned. I tried to Browse the forums, but I think I glitched my Data Search. If someone could help a chummer out and talk me through the little wrinkles and exemptions, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[DireRadiant]

A node attributes do not affect and are not affected by Living Persona and Complex Forms and Sprites, and sprite powers. That is in terms of them operating there, each CF or Sprite Power may have an effect on the system due to it's specific effect, but not because they are simply there.

[Drats]

But do the Complex Forms effect the Technomancer's own, biological, node the same way that programs would effect a comlink? For instance, if the Technomancer's LOGic (and therefore System) was a 5, and the Technomancer was using 5 of his CFs, would the response of the living node be reduced by 1?

This post has been edited by Drats: Apr 11 2010, 06:00 AM

[Udoshi]

Not really. Complex Forms are not Programs, and so do not count against the processor limit.

A TM's living persona stats DO matter though. System means Subscription limits, and what you roll to resist soak matrix damage. His intuition is his Reponse, and matrix initiative is Response+Initiative+hotsim, which makes Intuition a -very- important stat for a technomancer.

If you have a code sprite from unwired, for example, sitting in your biological node, knowing what it needs to roll against is handy. In general, though, all a TM really cares about is their Resonance, their Firewall, their Stealth is, what their Initiative is, and the size of their dice pool for various tasks on the matrix.

[bernardo]

For instance, if the Technomancer's LOGic (and therefore System) was a 5, and the Technomancer was using 5 of his CFs, would the response of the living node be reduced by 1?

SR4 - p. 233

"A technomancer’s complex forms can be used without limitation; running too many at once does not affect Response."

[Drats]

Thanks a lot. This is everything I need to make things veeery interesting for my GM.

Well... if I decide to go with this character. I hate to be the one to derail my own thread, but I'm coming to realize more and more, and please correct me if I'm wrong: it's really not possible to start a technomancer at 400BP and give them a decent secondary skillset without completely boning yourself in the Matrix department, is it?

[KCKitsune]

Thanks a lot. This is everything I need to make things veeery interesting for my GM.

Well... if I decide to go with this character. I hate to be the one to derail my own thread, but I'm coming to realize more and more, and please correct me if I'm wrong: it's really not possible to start a technomancer at 400BP and give them a decent secondary skillset without completely boning yourself in the Matrix department, is it?

Correct. The cost of the Complex Forms + the cost of the FOUR attributes makes a starting technomancer... sub-optimal for anything other than the Matrix.

Mages have a flat cost per spell and they only really have to buy up two stats. This allows for mages to have a "secondary" skill set... but they to are not too good at their secondary skill set either.

[Jaid]

Thanks a lot. This is everything I need to make things veeery interesting for my GM.

Well... if I decide to go with this character. I hate to be the one to derail my own thread, but I'm coming to realize more and more, and please correct me if I'm wrong: it's really not possible to start a technomancer at 400BP and give them a decent secondary skillset without completely boning yourself in the Matrix department, is it?

that's pretty much exactly right. you'll be lucky to have 3 skills other than matrix skills at higher than 2, and even more lucky if you can fit in any physical attributes higher than 3 (not counting metatype bonuses)

[WyldKnight]

Which is why, if you have Unwired, it's a good idea to try and convince your GM to use the optional rules that treat complex forms more like spells. Theres a flat cost and they can be used at any rating equal to your Resonance. I don't know about "overcasting" CFs but my GM wouldn't allow it even if you could because TMs can already Thread which is basically the same thing.

[Jaid]

Which is why, if you have Unwired, it's a good idea to try and convince your GM to use the optional rules that treat complex forms more like spells. Theres a flat cost and they can be used at any rating equal to your Resonance. I don't know about "overcasting" CFs but my GM wouldn't allow it even if you could because TMs can already Thread which is basically the same thing.

mhm. right. i can't think of how many times i've thought to myself "i sure wish every time i wanted to do anything at all in the matrix, i was at risk of taking damage."

[WyldKnight]

I never took damage, mainly because my GM wasn't a complete jerk and let me just buy the hits for the fade. TMs are sinks enough as it is and we don't play characters nearly long enough for the old way to work.