SR: What do love most? And what company can best bring it?, Or, who do you want to have the license? Options

[Dread Moores]

The more I think about this, the more I love this idea. Doesn't he already own the electronic rights to Shadowrun?

No, he doesn't own them. He licensed the electronic rights to SR/BT through Smith and Tinker from Microsoft.

[TomDowd]

Contracts are tricky things. I cannot remember how extensive the original Microsoft/FASA license was with regard to electronic rights. It may have encompassed all electronic packaging, or it may have just related to computer/video games. I *suspect* that it was all electronic packaging.

Regardless, if all the rights ended up with the same right's holder then there's a good deal more flexibility and possibilities. I doubt, however, that Smith and Tinker wants to get into the PnP publishing business, but who knows...

TD

[tete]

No, he doesn't own them. He licensed the electronic rights to SR/BT through Smith and Tinker from Microsoft.

Correct, my understanding is buying back IP from Mircosoft is very difficult at best. They like to hold onto IP even if its loosing money. They are more than happy to make money by Licensing though. Its honestly their entire business, Licensing stuff.

[Samoth]

QFT



Not so much, but not wanting to get into the fixed/variable TN# debate, either.

The "perfect" Shadowrun: Tom Dowd as lead writer, Rob Boyle as line developer, Adam Jury layout, Robert Derie for the metaplot/continuity. Who's with me?

Throw in Peter Bergting for 100% of the art and I'm down.

[Cain]

Contracts are tricky things. I cannot remember how extensive the original Microsoft/FASA license was with regard to electronic rights. It may have encompassed all electronic packaging, or it may have just related to computer/video games. I *suspect* that it was all electronic packaging.

Regardless, if all the rights ended up with the same right's holder then there's a good deal more flexibility and possibilities. I doubt, however, that Smith and Tinker wants to get into the PnP publishing business, but who knows...

TD

Well, considering that you and Jordan were the ones with the original vision; and that Jordan still has a burning passion for Shadowrun, do you think the the two of you be up for a hypothetical dream team of this sort? Speaking strictly hypothetically, of course. I know real life would intrude.

[Synner667]

As someone who started with SR 1, what do I love ??
The way the layout and presentation, in SR4, has progressed [though I'd have gone even further with the PDF].
Rules changes, changing the feel, the endless supply of sourcebooks [but virtually no scenarios], the problems with CGL/BattleCorps, the money grubbing = are all things that soured my views of SR4

Who do I want to have the licence ??
A small, focussed company that has stood the test of time - Mongoose or Cubicle 7 are the ones that leap to mind, none of the big boys would want it [too much variation from what they already do, too much focus on a niche genre] except as a settings book.

[Samoth]

Shadowrun's low point was SR3, for me. Strange, overly complicated rules changes, terrible cartoony artwork, and a ton of sourcebooks that were generally unnecessary (too many location settings, SOTA, etc.) 4E has definilty changed things for the better, especially with the artwork, though I haven't actually played the rules.

When I think of Shadowrun, the art is really the most important part. Janet Auliso's back cover street scene from the SR1/2 corebook was one of the selling points for me (other than the SNES game). THe early art made the setting seem really gritty and rough, and when I saw that stupid troll and the dwarf hanging from a rope on the SR3 corebook I was pretty upset. The art in SR4 is greatly improved, and harkens back to the older editions, which IMO is great for helping you get a feeling for the setting of the game. Tim Bradstreet, Janet Auliso, Peter Bergting, and Rick Berry - that is the style that I envisioned when I was 12 and started playing in 1993.

[Fuchs]

Shadowrun deals with shady stuff, convulted plots, corporate intrigue, magic and above all, crime. People who are as naive as to trust someone who - said in the most positive way possible - mingles personal and company funds are not people I want working on that game.

It goes without saying that anyone who actually supports such "mingling of funds" has no place working for a game either.

[augmentin]

Contracts are tricky things. I cannot remember how extensive the original Microsoft/FASA license was with regard to electronic rights. It may have encompassed all electronic packaging, or it may have just related to computer/video games. I *suspect* that it was all electronic packaging.

Regardless, if all the rights ended up with the same right's holder then there's a good deal more flexibility and possibilities. I doubt, however, that Smith and Tinker wants to get into the PnP publishing business, but who knows...

TD

Does anyone know how to contact Smith and Tinker. Wouldn't it be great if they bought the rights and subbed production out to Posthuman?

[Ol' Scratch]

I have to say that one thing I would LOVE to see is a modern reworking of the original logo with the dragon-goat skull. Shallow as it may sound, it's what first drew me to the game. The logos since then have been pretty dull and uninspired.

[hobgoblin]

If you had fun with it, was it junk? Of course not. Funny that RPG publishers are damned if they do something -- make a change, advance a plot, etc -- and damned if they don't. I'd rather be damned for doing something than not doing anything (and doing things generally makes more money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Fanon

[augmentin]

Frank is posting in other forums that some previous SR contributors are conspiring to gain the license while others are going to work for whoever holds the license. Of course, as always, he says he can't reveal his sources. (FT and JMH must've gone to the same school of PR management.) There's a link to it in CGL thread #5. At any rate, such (baseless?) speculation rightfully belong here on Dumpshock so, thoughts anyone?

[Patrick Goodman]

(FT and JMH must've gone to the same school of PR management.)

I think such a comparison is a profound insult to Jason, but what do I know? I've got a ghoul apocalypse to prepare for.

[JM Hardy]

Frank is posting in other forums that some previous SR contributors are conspiring to gain the license while others are going to work for whoever holds the license. Of course, as always, he says he can't reveal his sources. (FT and JMH must've gone to the same school of PR management.) There's a link to it in CGL thread #5. At any rate, such (baseless?) speculation rightfully belong here on Dumpshock so, thoughts anyone?

I believe the only time I said I couldn't reveal names was when I said I would not say the name of game industry personnel who had supported and contacted Catalyst. I hope you understand that any information about conversations between people who are not me is not mine to give. However, the source I had that those conversations are taking place was clear--it was Randall Bills' letter to the freelancers. Other times, I have attributed my information to Catalyst management or whomever else I was citing.

There have been times when I have said that there is information I can't reveal, which is simply the case. That's not me keeping sources anonymous--that's me acknowledging some workplace realities. Perhaps that's what you're referring to, and if that's the case, then I'll just have to live with your assessment.

If I'm incorrect and there were other times I did not reveal sources for information, please let me know and I'll clarify as much as I can.

Jason H.

[Demonseed Elite]

Frank is posting in other forums that some previous SR contributors are conspiring to gain the license while others are going to work for whoever holds the license. Of course, as always, he says he can't reveal his sources. (FT and JMH must've gone to the same school of PR management.) There's a link to it in CGL thread #5. At any rate, such (baseless?) speculation rightfully belong here on Dumpshock so, thoughts anyone?

I would say that if there were freelancers looking to gain the license, they would not discuss it publicly, because doing so would hurt their goal. And if they weren't going to talk about it publicly, they sure wouldn't mention it to Frank. I mean, anyone who has read any of the five parts of the CGL Speculation thread knows Frank would be the person you'd go to if you wanted something leaked, not kept quiet.

But the idea of a freelancer conspiracy does sound pretty cool, I'll admit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[augmentin]

I would say that if there were freelancers looking to gain the license, they would not discuss it publicly, because doing so would hurt their goal. And if they weren't going to talk about it publicly, they sure wouldn't mention it to Frank. I mean, anyone who has read any of the five parts of the CGL Speculation thread knows Frank would be the person you'd go to if you wanted something leaked, not kept quiet.

But the idea of a freelancer conspiracy does sound pretty cool, I'll admit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

It's very shadowrun, isn't it?

[augmentin]

I believe the only time I said I couldn't reveal names was when I said I would not say the name of game industry personnel who had supported and contacted Catalyst. I hope you understand that any information about conversations between people who are not me is not mine to give. However, the source I had that those conversations are taking place was clear--it was Randall Bills' letter to the freelancers. Other times, I have attributed my information to Catalyst management or whomever else I was citing.

There have been times when I have said that there is information I can't reveal, which is simply the case. That's not me keeping sources anonymous--that's me acknowledging some workplace realities. Perhaps that's what you're referring to, and if that's the case, then I'll just have to live with your assessment.

If I'm incorrect and there were other times I did not reveal sources for information, please let me know and I'll clarify as much as I can.

Jason H.

No intention of insult here. I posted a (far too) lengthy discussion on the topic over in CGL #5 a few days ago. Briefly, the point I made is that CGL management (not singling out any one, because we don't know who you report to) has placed you in the unenviable and untenable situation of having to respond to escalating accusations without being able to provide relevant source data.

In the same post, I pointed out that you have been far more polite than FT and that personality goes a long way. I think most of us here (and especially since AH's post) are working off the assumption that you would like to be able to share what you know and haven't really had much fun professionally (April Fool's excepted) the last couple weeks, but you are still an employee and must do what your employer tells you too. It may not be fair for me to say "most of us here." I have been working off that assumption since AH's post. Others here may or may not share my opinion, and this being dumpshock undoubtedly many do, many don't, and many have completely other theories.

[Nyost Akasuke]

Does anyone know how to contact Smith and Tinker. Wouldn't it be great if they bought the rights and subbed production out to Posthuman?

Just in case you still want to know, Smith & Tinker has a website which you can attempt to contact them through

I have to say that one thing I would LOVE to see is a modern reworking of the original logo with the dragon-goat skull. Shallow as it may sound, it's what first drew me to the game. The logos since then have been pretty dull and uninspired.

That would be amazing.

[augmentin]

Just in case you still want to know, Smith & Tinker has a website which you can attempt to contact them through

Done. Hopefully others will too. Thanks for the link!

[Nyost Akasuke]

Done. Hopefully others will too. Thanks for the link!

No prob. I sent them an email about a week an' a half ago concerning Shadowrun. I have yet to get anythin' back from them, and I doubt I will.
Maybe if enough requests are sent or somethin', they'll consider talkin'... dunno.

[augmentin]

No prob. I sent them an email about a week an' a half ago concerning Shadowrun. I have yet to get anythin' back from them, and I doubt I will.
Maybe if enough requests are sent or somethin', they'll consider talkin'... dunno.

We live in hope...

[BookWyrm]

If I may post my own opinion here (and the Moderators have every right to wipe this from the boards if I transgress):

I voted that CGL keep the licence. I feel they've done a very well-done job with the property, and kept to the spirit/essence (no pun intended) of Shadowrun as a whole. I've been picking up EVERY book since SR1 back in 1989, and to be honest, I haven't been disappointed. I picked up Seattle 2072, Vice and Dawn of the Artifacts 2:Midnight just under a month ago at I-CON, and I'm still going through them. Hell, I'm still going through SR4-A. But that's not the point. I'm a rather finiky (and voracious) reader, and I'm enjoying every morsel of SR4 so far.
I belive that fans like myself will keep the spirit of SR alive, for as long as it wills to be so.

I would like to see this game flourish. I can only hope that the remaining proposed books come out, to which I will no doubt spend my hard-earned cash on them. I can only send my well-wishes that all the troubles that are occuring will be resovled to everyone's satisfactions soon.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'd like Smith and Tinker.

On a realistic level I want someone who is really good at writing rules, I want the rules to be both interesting and not to have a crap ton of holes and problems.

I don't want mongoose since I won't buy any of there products.

[Kid Chameleon]

I'd like Smith and Tinker.

You do realize they are a video game company, right?

[Shinobi Killfist]

You do realize they are a video game company, right?

Yes. I also realize who is in charge there, and what rights they currently rent.