Weapon Mounts are forbidden?, How do security drones work, then? Options

[vollmond]

So far as I can tell, Weapon Mounts are listed with "F" in the Availability, no matter what kind. How exactly do companies have security drones, then? Is there any legal way (even with R) to get a drone with a weapon?

[Ol' Scratch]

As mentioned elsewhere recently, "Forbidden" means that it's forbidden for private citzens. Corporations, military, specially licensed security companies, etc. are all free to use them dependent upon the actual item in question.

[Sengir]

Is there any legal way (even with R) to get a drone with a weapon?

Buy one with a weapon mount...I guess it's the same rationale as buying a full auto weapon vs. modding a weapon for full auto.

[The Jopp]

This makes things rather fun. It is perfectly allright for Joe Average to buy a Doberman which includes a weapon mount but purchasing the modification as a single piece of equipment is illegal...

[Ol' Scratch]

The game has a lot of weird things like that. I'm still trying to figure out why Emotitoys, which are essentially drones, are not only cheaper than the Empathy software they come with, but are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the software they come with. It's, like, what... a 90% discount?

[MikeKozar]

I find the whole R/F availability system awkward. During character creation, the hard limit on Availability 12 is nice, it gives you an established power level (although everybody seems to just take Restricted Gear to get around it) but once the game is in play Availability doesn't seem to have much effect. Mostly it seems to be a basis for house rules and GM Fiat.

How do you guys use availability?

[DWC]

The game has a lot of weird things like that. I'm still trying to figure out why Emotitoys, which are essentially drones, are not only cheaper than the Empathy software they come with, but are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the software they come with. It's, like, what... a 90% discount?

I blame it on the lack of flexibility. The emotitoy version of the software has to run on the little Tamagochi, using the sensors built into it. The full version of the software can run on anything, using a configurable variety of inputs. Mechanically, it's lame, but it's the only thing I can think of that makes a lick of sense.

The other option is that the designers screwed up and didn't clearly state that the Emotitoy is limited to only making Teamwork Tests or forgot to limit it to a rating of 3.

[Stahlseele]

Basically, Coprs can declare exterritoriality and basically make their own laws.
At that moment, it's basically one corporation/state selling drones to another corporation/state.
And if their laws say everything goes, there's nobody who can tell them not to do that anymore.

[Ol' Scratch]

I find the whole R/F availability system awkward. During character creation, the hard limit on Availability 12 is nice, it gives you an established power level (although everybody seems to just take Restricted Gear to get around it) but once the game is in play Availability doesn't seem to have much effect. Mostly it seems to be a basis for house rules and GM Fiat.

How do you guys use availability?

Eh? It's used for the Extended Tests to see how long it takes to find the gear on the black market. The time between checks is determined by the cost, usually, but this part requires the GM's judgement. It's used by the players and contacts alike...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The game has a lot of weird things like that. I'm still trying to figure out why Emotitoys, which are essentially drones, are not only cheaper than the Empathy software they come with, but are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the software they come with. It's, like, what... a 90% discount?

I see it as needing both, actually... the Emotitoy (Are you Kidding Me?) is the hardware, and the Empathy Software is the programming needed to make the Emotitoy work; you got to have both for it to function as described... that being said, we do not actually USE emotitoys in our game... in fact, one of our Johnson's would probably walk out of a Meet if we tried to use them... as they are not really that "HIP" with the professional outlook of most (if not all) Johnsons... and they are really dorky to boot...


They just strike me as a Fad of the common people... I mean after all, look at the proliferation electronic pets that exist nowadays, both standalone and as Apps for Smart Phones (what a fad)... Are you kidding me?

Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith

[Stahlseele]

I allways explain their affect as a topic of conversation with which you can lure your conversation partner/enemy into giving you what you want . .

[Ol' Scratch]

I'd never use one myself, and they most certainly do come with the software. I just think its odd and a perfect representation of the weapon mount issue. It's one of those "wtf" things that you just have to shrug at.

[SpellBinder]

How do I use availability? As leverage to get mouthy players in trouble at a border crossing checkpoint.

As for the Doberman statement; consider that the drone is highly recognizable and known to have a mount for a gun of some sort (and Joe Civilian has a record for having a potentially armed drone). Adding a weapon mount gives a person the chance to take a more benign drone like a Roto-Drone, Dalmatian, or Stormcloud and potentially turning it into a war machine.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'd never use one myself, and they most certainly do come with the software. I just think its odd and a perfect representation of the weapon mount issue. It's one of those "wtf" things that you just have to shrug at.

Apologies, I should have said that if we actually used them, then the Software would have had to be purchased in addition to the Emotitoy itself...

So a Rating 6 Emotitoy (Hardware Ratings of 6) would cost 600 Nuyen with the additional expense of the Empathy Software of Rating 6 costing an additional 3000 Nuyen, for a package cost of 3600 Nuyen... With the additional caveat that the hardware had to be equal to or more powerful than the Software package installed...

This would bring the costs in line somewhat with how we perceive the game... and the bonuses fo the software would add as teamwork to your normal roll... which also limits the usefulness... But the overriding factor that keeps them from being used in our games is the possible reaction from those with whom we interact... I mean really... it is just faddish and somewhat incongruous to bring such a thing to a meeting with a potential employeer... thoguh it might indeed say something about your personality...

Keep the Faith

[Udoshi]

Its a lot more simple when you realize that specific items work like they say they do. No more, no less.

Yes, emotitoys are stupid. Yes, any joe average citizen may buy a Doberman and take it for walks in the park. It may cost them a months rent to do so, buy hey. Unmodified, its perfectly legal.

..Aaaaas soon as you slap a gun on it, though, now its illegal(and more importantly, it has an External mount, which means anyone who looks at it can see your machine gun). Or even certain upgrades can change the legality of a device - fuzzy logic, for example, is a restricted piece of vehicle enhancement. It comes for free on a lockheed vulcan, which isn't illegal.

But, hey, some stuffs is configured to work a certain way or do a certain task out the door, and that's okay by me.

[DWC]

Its a lot more simple when you realize that specific items work like they say they do. No more, no less.

Yes, emotitoys are stupid. Yes, any joe average citizen may buy a Doberman and take it for walks in the park. It may cost them a months rent to do so, buy hey. Unmodified, its perfectly legal.

..Aaaaas soon as you slap a gun on it, though, now its illegal(and more importantly, it has an External mount, which means anyone who looks at it can see your machine gun). Or even certain upgrades can change the legality of a device - fuzzy logic, for example, is a restricted piece of vehicle enhancement. It comes for free on a lockheed vulcan, which isn't illegal.

But, hey, some stuffs is configured to work a certain way or do a certain task out the door, and that's okay by me.

Slapping a legal, registered weapon onto a legal, registered drone isn't going to be a crime. Frank the Finance Guy (who travels a lot for work and has a large home) just might lease a Doberman and have his neighborhood's security contractor fit it with a legally purchased and registered M-23 loaded with legally purchased Stick'n'Shock rounds and program it to patrol his property while he's not home.

Based on the differences in the legality codes, it appears that the concern is more with the addition of weapons to things not intended to be armed than anything else. I couldn't guess why this is any more than I could about why Bone Lacing is Forbidden but the bioware version is completely legal and doesn't even require any sort of permit.

[SpellBinder]

Which is more likely to get banned in Boston, Mass.: An Ingram MAC-10 (shoots bullets) or a super soaker (shoots water)? According to dumblaws.com, it's actually illegal to buy/sell/possess a squirt gun in Marlboro, Mass.

IRL laws don't always make sense. Expect the same to show in Shadowrun (or any other RPG that involves a lot of laws or legality).

Besides, when people are pure, laws are useless. When people are corrupt, laws are broken. When people are dumb, laws are made.

[vollmond]

Many thanks for the answers, folks!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which is more likely to get banned in Boston, Mass.: An Ingram MAC-10 (shoots bullets) or a super soaker (shoots water)? According to dumblaws.com, it's actually illegal to buy/sell/possess a squirt gun in Marlboro, Mass.

IRL laws don't always make sense. Expect the same to show in Shadowrun (or any other RPG that involves a lot of laws or legality).

Besides, when people are pure, laws are useless. When people are corrupt, laws are broken. When people are dumb, laws are made.

This is so very very true, sad to say...

Keep the Faith

[Sengir]

Which is more likely to get banned in Boston, Mass.: An Ingram MAC-10 (shoots bullets) or a super soaker (shoots water)? According to dumblaws.com, it's actually illegal to buy/sell/possess a squirt gun in Marlboro, Mass.

IIRC under US laws the semiautomatic variety of the MAC-10 is also illegal, because open bolt designs can be modified for full auto with a piece of wire, whereas the models which were build for automatic fire right away would be considered "restricted" in Shadowrun terms.

[knasser]

Basically, Coprs can declare exterritoriality and basically make their own laws.
At that moment, it's basically one corporation/state selling drones to another corporation/state.

Basically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Draco18s]

IRL laws don't always make sense.

In North Dakota, beer and pretzels can't be served at the same time in any bar or restaurant.

[kjones]

Is there anyone who uses emotitoys, straight up, as intended?

I just can't picture it.

[Dumori]

I had a rigger that had one modded to hell that also had autosofts to do maths and physics problems on the side. The has a day job working as a professor.