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> Ares Alpha Grenade Launcher, Can it be combat loaded?
nezumi
post Apr 20 2010, 06:13 PM
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Title says it all.

Ares Alpha grenade launcher has an internal magazine of 8 rounds. Looking at the pictures, I can't see where they possible fit, but thems the rules. So... can this grenade launcher be combat loaded? Any special rules for that?
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Ol' Scratch
post Apr 20 2010, 06:20 PM
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If memory serves, the Ares Alpha's grenade launcher is a (c)lip weapon, and I think it takes one Complex Action to load (Agility) rounds into a clip. The table is somewhere around the ammuniation tables in the gear chapter. Not that it matters that it's a (c) weapon as (ml) weapons have a similar rule. Silly as that sounds for a grenade launcher, that's about how it goes by the rules.

Edit: Yeesh! You really have to fight with this software to get (c) to not show up as .
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augmentin
post Apr 20 2010, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 20 2010, 02:13 PM) *
Title says it all.

Ares Alpha grenade launcher has an internal magazine of 8 rounds. Looking at the pictures, I can't see where they possible fit, but thems the rules. So... can this grenade launcher be combat loaded? Any special rules for that?


Not sure what developers intend was, but I would argue, yes.

An internal box or fixed magazine (also known as a blind box magazine when lacking a floorplate) is built into the firearm and is not easily removable. This type of magazine is found most often on bolt-action rifles. An internal box magazine is usually charged through the action, one round at a time. Military rifles often use stripper clips or chargers permitting multiple rounds, commonly 5 or 10 at a time, to be loaded at once. Some internal box magazines use en-bloc clips that are loaded into the magazine with the ammunition and that are ejected from the firearm when empty.

No grenade launchers like that currently exist, but then neither do elves and dragons.
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Nemo
post Apr 20 2010, 06:39 PM
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In SR2/3 it is internal (m)agazine, in SR4A it is ( c)lip. The Clip you can easily change in combat, reloading the magazin in combat is not recommanded.
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nezumi
post Apr 20 2010, 06:58 PM
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Yeah guys, I specified "internal magazine" (probably should have specified FIXED internal magazine) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does that change any answers?
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nezumi
post Apr 20 2010, 07:03 PM
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Also note, combat reloading is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bykTYHHfWoA
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Ol' Scratch
post Apr 20 2010, 07:13 PM
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By the rules, no. You still get to reload it with Agility (or maybe it's Reaction)/Quickness rounds as a Complex Action. I'm not aware of any rules for any other type of reloading, so you'd have to come up with a house rule for anything like what's in that YouTube clip. Maybe a special Complex Action to load one grenade and fire it at the same time, or may some kind of Agility/Quickness Test similar to the Quick Draw rules to do it all as a Simple Action instead? I dunno.
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DWC
post Apr 20 2010, 07:14 PM
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Nah. The thing that would have helped would have been the SR3 tag. If memory serves, internal fixed magazines in SR3 were reloaded a number of rounds equal to your Quickness every Complex action, which didn't preclude combat reloading. I don't see why this wouldn't apply for admin reloading your grenade launcher.

It's slow as dirt to spend a Complex action adding a fresh round to the top of the stack, then spending a Simple Action to fire it, then another simple action to draw a fresh minigrenade, a Complex to load and chamber it, then a Simple to fire it. However, it does mean you choose exactly what round to fire every time you pull the trigger, regaining a lot of the versatility that a magazine fed grenade launcher would otherwise lose.
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nezumi
post Apr 20 2010, 07:16 PM
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Alright. However, a shotgun can be reloaded like that right now, so assumedly this is an oversight of the rules and, to mirror realism, it should be permitted for a shotgun. To model realism, should it be permitted with the grenade launcher?
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DWC
post Apr 20 2010, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 20 2010, 03:16 PM) *
Alright. However, a shotgun can be reloaded like that right now, so assumedly this is an oversight of the rules and, to mirror realism, it should be permitted for a shotgun. To model realism, should it be permitted with the grenade launcher?


I don't see how the rules don't reflect this.

You're effectively turning a weapon with an internal magazine into a breach loading weapon by loading through the ejection port of a manually operated weapon in mid cycle. Since the weapon is SS rather than SA, I'd extrapolate that its' grenade launcher is manually charged, allowing for just the situation you describe.

Hell, as a smart weapon, I would imagine it has a mechanism that would allow you to open the bolt to extract the last round without feeding a fresh round from the magazine, which would allow you to tactical reload while you still have rounds in your internal magazine.

The other big downside to the loss in speed would be that you're turning a closed bolt weapon into an open bolt weapon, which means you get the risk of all sorts of crap winding up in the chamber while you're not firing.
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augmentin
post Apr 20 2010, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 20 2010, 01:58 PM) *
Yeah guys, I specified "internal magazine" (probably should have specified FIXED internal magazine) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does that change any answers?


Nope. Internal Box Magazine, Fixed Magazine, and Blind Box Magazine are all technical terms that mean essentially the same thing.
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Stingray
post Apr 21 2010, 12:00 PM
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..and to make things EVEN more confusing: my copy of SR4A and Arsenal list ammo capasity of Alpha's
Grenade Launcher 6 rounds not 8..which one is real??
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)
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DWC
post Apr 21 2010, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Apr 21 2010, 07:00 AM) *
..and to make things EVEN more confusing: my copy of SR4A and Arsenal list ammo capasity of Alpha's
Grenade Launcher 6 rounds not 8..which one is real??
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)


Both are. SR4 changed the Alpha's grenade launcher from having an 8 round internal magazine to having a six round detachable magazine. This thread just happens to be missing its' SR3 tag.
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nezumi
post Apr 21 2010, 01:24 PM
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The SR4 answer seems at least a little more realistic (even if that dog must weigh a ton).
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Shrike30
post Apr 21 2010, 06:55 PM
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If you allow a combat reload for any other weapon, I don't see a problem with doing it using an Alpha's grenade launcher. Complex action to load and fire a shell (maybe after succeeding in a test akin to that required for a Quick Draw) could be entertaining.
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Ol' Scratch
post Apr 21 2010, 08:26 PM
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Oops.
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