CGL Speculation #7 Options

[Dread Moores]

I'm not ignoring them, but regardless of how familiar these people may be with the Shadowrun universe and the specific writing style, there will be a learning curve. The loss of the so-called 'core freelancers' (like Jason Levine, Peter Taylor, Bobby Derie and Jennifer Harding) in terms of writing resources, kowledge, criticism and advice works against that learning curve.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Peter and Jason left quite a while before this current mess, didn't they? I'm not sure it's really fair to consider them core freelancers if they've left well before this, seeing as they would have been replaced already on the products that have come out since that time.

[DireRadiant]

...
Complete a...

-Frank

Personal attack is against the ToS

[Ancient History]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Peter and Jason left quite a while before this current mess, didn't they? I'm not sure it's really fair to consider them core freelancers if they've left well before this, seeing as they would have been replaced already on the products that have come out since that time.

If it's at all indicative of the delays in the project schedule, Corp Guide was originally Synner's book.

[Fuchs]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Peter and Jason left quite a while before this current mess, didn't they? I'm not sure it's really fair to consider them core freelancers if they've left well before this, seeing as they would have been replaced already on the products that have come out since that time.

That depends on how long the planning period for products is.

Edit: AH was faster and more informative.

[Dread Moores]

If it's at all indicative of the delays in the project schedule, Corp Guide was originally Synner's book.

Ouch. That's very not good.

No offense is intended to either Jason or Peter, I just have a crappy memory anymore. Thanks for the info though, Ancient. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Kid Chameleon]

this part is essentially accurate; i don't know of any battletech writers offhand who are waiting on checks from three years back, but then i also don't frequent the battletech boards. (official or otherwise) i suspect if i did, i would know the freelancer(s) he is talking about. although this may be one of the singular instead of plural errors bull was talking about, i am in no position to know.

Well, that certainly is true if you include all of us still owed by FanPro. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

[Synner]

Vice and Corporate Guide were indeed my final projects for Catalyst as developer and both were delivered for editing and layout in April 2009, a month after I officially stepped down. They were 2 of 5 projects I left in the final stages of the production pipeline, of which 2 remain to be released.

Though I continue to love and work on stuff in my spare time, I have not actively contributed as a freelancer (at least, for the English line) since leaving Catalyst for both personal and professional reasons. I don't feel comfortable talking about either on this thread.

(...)I'm not sure it's really fair to consider them core freelancers if they've left well before this(...)

Having written more than 10000 words for SR4A alone (including a short story), drafted and (re)written entire chapters for every book in the Shadowrun 4 line released to date except the original corebook, and with credits as author, artist, editor, assistant developer, or developer in every Shadowrun release since Dragons of the Sixth World, I would still presume to call myself a "core freelancer".

[BTFreeLancer]

this part is essentially accurate; i don't know of any battletech writers offhand who are waiting on checks from three years back, but then i also don't frequent the battletech boards. (official or otherwise) i suspect if i did, i would know the freelancer(s) he is talking about.

I very much doubt it.

We (BT freelancers) have largely stayed quiet on this. Call it professionalism, call it misplaced loyalty, call it ambivalence - whatever. And the BT community (official or otherwise) on the whole seems to have taken the same attitude.

One thing I will note is Topps requirement to change the WizKids logo to the Topps logo - seeing as this is can really only be applied to new products (I doubt Matt Heerdt and Ray Arrastia are changing the logo on every PDF in the BattleShop), it's an indication at the very least that Topps is seriously considering the renewal.

[Fuchs]

Some of those books have taken, or are taking, a long time to come out then. That doesn't look good for other products in the pipeline.

[Dread Moores]

this part is essentially accurate; i don't know of any battletech writers offhand who are waiting on checks from three years back, but then i also don't frequent the battletech boards. (official or otherwise) i suspect if i did, i would know the freelancer(s) he is talking about. although this may be one of the singular instead of plural errors bull was talking about, i am in no position to know.

wildfire pressing for chapter 7 we know. I'm not aware of any specific details that have been posted regarding earlier agreements, but then i also don't frequent the wildfire boards either (if any). it is possible those agreements have been made public. it is also possible that frank has sources in wildfire who are feeding him confidential information.

In regards to the BT forums, no, even if you frequent those forums, you're not going to find freelancers talking about what they are owed. The BT freelancers largely seem to have closed ranks (at least publicly) and also anything regarding numbers/figures is typically removed by the mods (either due to no backing proof or inappropriate for public consumption, as I recall). So don't go looking there for any more information on that.

Pretty much the same for Wildfire. The Ctech boards have yet to even comment on the lawsuit existing, and as far as I remember, there's not even a press release regarding the lawsuit. That's probably a wise move in both cases.

If that info is being leaked, that's certainly possible, considering some of the other leaks that existed in this whole situation. But I'm pretty sure that info isn't coming from either of those two forums.

[Dread Moores]

Having personally written more than 10000 words for SR4A alone (including a short story), rewritten and drafted entire chapters for every book in the Shadowrun 4 line except the original corebook, and with credits as author, artist, editor, assistant developer, or developer in every Shadowrun release since Dragons of the Sixth World, I would presume to call myself a "core freelancer".

Like I said above, no disrespect was intended. I just honestly couldn't remember when you left. I guess for some reason, I had it stuck in my head that you and Jason left around the same time, which was way early on in the SR4 development. I'm just getting old and forgetful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I wasn't trying to imply you were never a core freelancer (however that's defined, really it just seems like a weird thing to differentiate to me) or weren't obviously integral. I just don't always remember who did what and when, so I mistakenly assumed that you had left earlier, hence not writing as much for SR4 and subsequently being replaced earlier. My apologies on the mistake, and proving the whole assumption bit true on my end.

[JM Hardy]

Two quick things:

He has continued that tradition by pushing writers out of the pool for showing insufficient loyalty to the company, regardless of knowledge of the subject, writing ability, or loyalty to the Shadowrun line.
Speculation. Locking me out of the freelancer forums was the incentive for me jumping ship; and reportedly he did the same to a few others. Certainly the heightened paranoia around security and leaking drafts that led to the abandonment of the freelancer forums hasn't helped much, but I am unaware of Jason intentionally trying to push freelancers out.

Drafts did in fact leak out. I find it odd to refer to "paranoia" in a situation where leaks are actively happening.

When the scandal broke, he locked arms with Randall and told him that people were spreading lies about him.
Speculation. I heard that Jason when initially informed did go to Randall and take action against the individual that had informed him of Loren's "co-mingling of funds", but there's no way to confirm it independently.

This is incorrect. When I contacted people, the only actions I advised were communication with the fan base about the situation. I have never advocated that management take a specific action against anyone, including the person who told me about the co-mingling.

Jason H.

[Demonseed Elite]

I'm just going to comment on the few parts that I'm qualified to comment on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nevertheless, a lot of high quality talent, and even medium quality talent, has stated that come hell or high water, they will never work with IMR again.
Certainly Jennifer Harding, Jay Levine, myself, and several other ex-freelancers are of that opinion.

Eight years of writing for the RPG industry has made me less forgiving of it, not more. The bar has gotten higher, so to speak. IMR, as it exists currently, is at best a disorganized mess that can hardly call itself a business. At worst, it is a sham built around filling Loren L. Coleman's pocket. The truth may be somewhere in the middle, but that's still not a company I would want to work for. I like my name to be on things that I'm proud of.

I generally don't like burning bridges and unlike Frank and some others, my agenda isn't to drive IMR into the ground. My agenda, as honestly as I can state it, is for Shadowrun to be in the hands of a publisher who is respectful of its staff and freelance employees and honest with its customers. Could IMR be that publisher? I suppose anything is possible, but right now they would have a long way to go to reach that point. And as I've stated before, I've seen a lot of emergency measures so far, but I can't pin down anything substantial on future changes to IMR. Right now I don't know what the future will bring for Shadowrun, but I'll just wait and see.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Peter and Jason left quite a while before this current mess, didn't they? I'm not sure it's really fair to consider them core freelancers if they've left well before this, seeing as they would have been replaced already on the products that have come out since that time.

True, we left before this mess, though I consider this current mess connected to the problems I dealt with back in 2008. Whether I'm a core freelancer or not depends on your definition of "core", I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) All I can really say is that I was prolific freelancer and a long-term freelancer, with a lot of word count and book credits with Shadowrun.

[Ancient History]

Drafts did in fact leak out. I find it odd to refer to "paranoia" in a situation where leaks are actively happening.

Considering I've been talking with the people on the other side of the issue, who don't particularly appreciate the lack of trust shown in them by your actions, I think you're probably not delusional about it but you are paranoid about it.

This is incorrect. When I contacted people, the only actions I advised were communication with the fan base about the situation. I have never advocated that management take a specific action against anyone, including the person who told me about the co-mingling.

<shrug> Your word against theirs - and I trust them more.

[Demonseed Elite]

Like I said above, no disrespect was intended. I just honestly couldn't remember when you left. I guess for some reason, I had it stuck in my head that you and Jason left around the same time, which was way early on in the SR4 development. I'm just getting old and forgetful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, my last work with Catalyst was August of 2008, when I sent an e-mail to John Dunn, Peter Taylor, David Stansel-Garner, and Randall Bills telling Catalyst to take me off the Manhattan e-book project and not use any of the drafts I'd given them, because three previous e-mails from me asking for my contract hadn't resulted in me actually getting a contract to sign. John was pressuring me to turn in Manhattan e-book drafts because he was apparently being pressured from above, but I wasn't about to turn in material without signing anything, and I told them as much. To be fair to John and Peter, both of them did reply to me and did try to pass my concerns up the chain, where they apparently fell on deaf ears.

But my access to the freelancer forums, and I guess my status as a freelancer with them, was revoked the same day that Peter's time as line developer ended, in April of 2009. I didn't get any warning that they were removing my freelancer forum access and apparently Peter didn't get any warning they were removing it either, from conversations I had with him that very day. I still don't know why exactly I was removed. I guess maybe because I hadn't written anything for them in six months or so, but I had still stayed very involved on the freelancer forums with feedback and draft commenting until I found I could no longer log into them.

[Dread Moores]

True, we left before this mess, though I consider this current mess connected to the problems I dealt with back in 2008. Whether I'm a core freelancer or not depends on your definition of "core", I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) All I can really say is that I was prolific freelancer and a long-term freelancer, with a lot of word count and book credits with Shadowrun.

Again, like with Synner, my apologies. It's bad phrasing on my part. I wasn't attempting to imply neither of your work was unimportant, simply that I had thought (mistakenly) that the timing was separated by quite a bit. Meaning it seemed like you and Synner were being lumped in as leaving with some of those other recent folks, as part of the most recent issues. That's all I was trying to point. Clearly I did that badly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now how far back these issues go, and if they are all more of one big interconnected mess? It certainly begins to look that way, but that's just opinion from these biased eyes.

[Fuchs]

A few years by most accounts. Back to FanPro's days by some accounts.

[JM Hardy]

This is incorrect. When I contacted people, the only actions I advised were communication with the fan base about the situation. I have never advocated that management take a specific action against anyone, including the person who told me about the co-mingling.

You know, I was thinking about this as I was putting laundry in a drier, and I was perhaps a tad too absolute. I did ask for one freelancer to be removed from the forums, as has been discussed often--I consider that an action I took, but given that other people had the passwords necessary to administer to forums, I had to ask other people to do it, so in that sense, I did ask management to take action against someone. Also, a bit after things broke, I recommended that people who were no longer employees be removed from the board for employees, which seemed like common sense to me (and not really "against" them, since the people had resigned).

As far as the person who told me about the co-mingling, though, I stand by my statement. I did not recommend action against that person. Given that this recommendation for action supposedly took place in a conversation between myself and Randall, I'm one of only two people that knows what I said. I even just reviewed chat transcripts to make sure my memory isn't playing tricks on me. It's not.

Jason H.

[Demonseed Elite]

Again, like with Synner, my apologies. It's bad phrasing on my part. I wasn't attempting to imply neither of your work was unimportant, simply that I had thought (mistakenly) that the timing was separated by quite a bit. Meaning it seemed like you and Synner were being lumped in as leaving with some of those other recent folks, as part of the most recent issues. That's all I was trying to point. Clearly I did that badly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now how far back these issues go, and if they are all more of one big interconnected mess? It certainly begins to look that way, but that's just opinion from these biased eyes.

No offense taken and no need to apologize. We are often lumped in with the freelancers who recently withheld copyright or terminated contracts. I'm not bothered by this, because in my case, I agree with those freelancers' actions. They are responding to the same issues I had with Catalyst in 2008, but in the middle of a much messier and more public situation. If I were in their shoes, I would have done the same thing.

As far as the problems being connected, I have a hard time seeing how they aren't. When I transitioned from FanPro to Catalyst, I was skeptical. I was being burned by FanPro on some payments. Catalyst, though, was full of promises about how things would be different. I was specifically told that a new streamlined system was being implemented to make sure contracts went out on time and were signed and sealed before draft work began. I was also told that since Catalyst had a full-time Operations Manager (David Stansel-Garner), someone would always be on top of the contracts and payments. I was still skeptical, but Catalyst had some great people signing on that I respected (Rob Boyle, Peter Taylor and Adam Jury among them), so I decided to keep going with them. But it didn't take long before the contracts were late and payments were late. And I can't help but think that was connected to IMR's very shoddy business practices and possibly also to cash-flow problems at least partially caused by Loren L. Coleman's frequent withdrawals from the account.

[augmentin]

"In the whole round of human affairs little is so fatal to peace as misunderstanding."
--Margaret E. Sangster,
American writer and editor

[BlueMax]

I am speculating here and its about the topic

I wish the lawyers I know and hangout with were in Washington/Seattle. If one tenth of the business decisions discussed here could be proven, or will occur, the lawyers will make out like madmen.

Frag being a runner chummer, the real money here is in litigation.

BlueMax
/and if there was real money in internet libel suits
// boy howdy, I could see some money there too.

[LurkerOutThere]

So I just got caught up, something that occured to me while I was fixing breakfast after reading through and get caught up though:

If Frank is right, what's taking so long?

Honestly Frank has stated on multiple occasions that he has contacted Topps and passed on evidence of wrong doing and otherwise made them aware of the situation. If a portion of what Frank asseses is true and valid then it should be a no-brainer for Topps to announce that the license will be renewed and start the process to get a new company involved, which could take perhaps a year of more, which would pretty much suck for all of us who Shadowrun factors largely into our summer con plans. Unless Topps is required by the contract to allow the previous contractor to have first swipe on the license given the magnitude of the transgressions one would think Topps would have already made an announcement and not even allowed IMR to go through the motions of making a bid, that ignores the fact the Topps is going to want their money, plain and simple.


So yea while I don't have much look down into the secret back room deals, nor claim to, I've done contracted work on an individual level, and been a party to it at the corporate level and usually everyone knows well in advance when a contractor has blown their chances of getting renewed, we've seen no signs like that as yet from Topps.

[Grinder]

Negotiations between Topps and CGL as well as between Topps and other companies interested in the SR and/ or BT license may well be happening at this time. If there are other companies who like to get one or both licenses.
And Topps is obviously wise enough not to post details of their negotations at a public forum.

How much they care about Frank Trollman and how much value they put in his information is an entirely different question.

[Dread Moores]

So I just got caught up, something that occured to me while I was fixing breakfast after reading through and get caught up though:

If Frank is right, what's taking so long?

To be fair, most large corporations like Topps seem to work at a snail's pace in terms of decision making. At least that's been my experience.

[DWC]

What would Topps gain by announcing that they would not be allowing Catalyst to renew the lease of the license? If the assumption is that the license lease will be renewed, production continues, and sales continue, and Topps keeps accumulating owed royalties. If it announces that Catalyst is a lame duck company, then production grinds to a halt as there's no reason to bother with working on a project that has just been effectively canceled, and even less incentive to pay to print books that can't be sold.