Zero Successes on Healing Test, What happens when you get none. Options

[bit_buckethead]

I am kind of new to Shadowrun and I have a question on healing damage. What happens if the character gets no successes on the healing test? Does he not heal for the base time for the damage level, or does he heal the one level in that base time? Could anyone point me to the rule for this?

Thanks
Bit_Buckethead

[Herald of Verjig...]

If you are referring to the natural healing test (Body vs. TN based on damage, measured mostly in days), a total failure takes double the base time.

So a light physical wound, total failure (but not rule of 1) will take 2 days to heal.

[Fortune]

I don't know the canon rule off-hand, but I would think that a failed Healing test would result in no healing, with the added bonus of +2 to the Healer's TN to try again.

Incidently, A Biotech test is one of the only rolls my character, Fortune ever botched. This resulted in one dead troll, and a very pissed-off Johnson. :D

Edit: I assumed the poster was refering to a Biotech/First Aid test.

[Kagetenshi]

Is there a doctor in the house? ...that isn't Fortune, that is?

;)

~J

[bit_buckethead]

Whoops, sorry should have been more specific. Sometimes having my head in a bit bucket has it's disadvantages. The rolls to which I am referring to are pages 126-127 of SR3.

The first is the test under "Healing Stun Damage" on page 126. I know that most people don't fail this roll under most conditions but if you have Serious Stun damage and Serious Physical Damage the roll is an 8 (2 + 3 (Serious Stun) + 3 (Serious Physical)). This can sometimes make it hard for a Magic User to heal stun damage quickly.

The second is under the "Stages of Healing" on page 127.

Thanks again,
Bit_Buckethead

[mfb]

magic can't heal stun damage; otherwise, drain wouldn't suck.

[Lilt]

Not only can magic not heal stun, it can't heal Drain at-all so magic can't heal physical drain either.

As for the roll bit_buckethead is talking about: I can't see anything about expending doubble the base time on a failure, so I'd just say that the base time (IE: 1 hour for a box of stun) is taken and they need to roll again

IE: A willpower 5 character has 6 boxes of stun and 6 boxes of physical,
On his first test to heal stun damage, he rolls: 1,3,3,5,7
1 hour passes and he still feels like drek.
On his second test to heal stun damage, he rolls: 1,2,4,9,17
After another 30 minutes (1 hour 30 in total) he heals his first box of stun.

And mis-reading of the day by me:

[RedmondLarry]

bit_bucket, as I read the natural recovery from Stun Damage (p. 126 "Healing Stun Damage) and the natural recovery from Physical Damage (p. 127 "Stages of Healing"), I interpret for both of them that zero successes means that the base time passes without any improvement in the character's condition. With one success they recover the specified amount in the base time, more successes shortens the time. Either way they can then spend additional time and roll again.

[mfb]

for physical damage, if you fail the roll, you won't heal without medical attention (SR3 pg 127, first para, second sentence).

[RedmondLarry]

Yes, mfb, good point. The character does have to succeed with that Body test (first paragraph p. 127) before getting any rolls to determine the rate of healing ("Stages of Healing", same page). Failure on that first test indicates the character can't heal on his own at all.

[mfb]

i would probably allow the character to make another healing test after medical attention has brought their damage down by at least one level. for instance, you're at S damage, and fail your healing test. the doc patches you up some, bringing you to M damage. from there, i'd allow another check.

[Kagetenshi]

Gotta hate it when those light pistol wounds get infected...

~J

[mfb]

indeed.

you know, bioware and attribute stress from overly long healing periods would be an interesting rule. of course, in SR, 'overly long' would be anything longer than 3 days for an S wound.

[Rev]

If you want to be a hardass you could say that 0 sucesses and you have to resist (currentboxes)currentwoundlevel damage, or something like that.

Got to have rules to produce long lingering deaths for those survivalist type campaigns. :)

[REM]

Definatly take the enviroment into consideration to determine if it gets infected with some strange shit.

[bit_buckethead]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. If I get anything wrong please let me know. I am going to use as an example what happened last game.

Now, I have mage named Victor who though a combination of spell casting and being on the receiving end of a high velocity round accrued a total of 6 points of Stun damage and 6 points of Physical damage. Now Victor has a Body of 3 and a Willpower of 6, but Victor is not feeling too well after the run. His teammates decide that they need to get Victor to the local shadow clinic and the friendly Street Doc. Now, Victor could cast a Force 4 heal upon himself, but is not really feeling up to the casting. One reason is the target number. (TN 10 ((10-6 Essence) +3 for Serious Stun +3 for Serious Physical)). Next is the possibility of taking more damage from drain. (Drain 2S) Finally, use of a heal spell will prevent the street doc from using Biotech on Victor.

Fortunately, the Shadow Clinic is not too far away, and Victor makes it to the shadow clinic within the required hour. Unfortunately, for poor Victor the Street Doc fails his Biotech roll. (TN: 10 (8 for the Serious wound, +2 for patient being Awakened and +0 for a Body of 1-3))

Now, Victor decides that he is still too tired to cast a Heal spell on himself and decides to rest and recover his Stun Damage. The target number to recover the first point of Stun damage is 8. (Base of 2 + 3 for Serious Stun +3 for Serious Physical). The target number for the next 3 points of Stun is 7. (Base of 2 +2 for Moderate Stun +3 for Serious Physical) And the target number for the last 2 points is 6. (Base of 2 +1 for Light Stun + 3 for Serious Physical.

Victor decides to rest and recover all of his stun damage before trying to cast a Heal on himself. The next morning, (6 hours later) Victor has recovered all of the Stun Damage and decides to cast Force 4 Heal upon himself. (TN: 7 (10-6 Essence +3 for Serious Physical) Drain: 2S) Victor’s luck is running true to form and he fails to get any successes on the Healing test and to top it all off he takes Light Stun damage from Drain.

Now Victor needs to make the roll on the Wound Table to see if he needs medical attention to heal. (TN: 6) Victor rolls his 3 Body dice and doesn’t even come close to getting a 6. So it looks like Victor is going to be spending some time in the shadow clinic.

Victor is now stuck trying to roll a TN of 9 (Base of 8 for Serious Wound +2 for being Awakened +0 for Body of 1-3 -1 for Willpower of 6) with 3 dice to heal from Serious to Moderate.

Unfortunately, this is a hard roll and Victor has already failed it twice. So far spending 40 days in the clinic at a cost of 20200 :nuyen: . (40 x 500 :nuyen: per day for Hospitalization + 200 :nuyen: for Paramedic first aid for serious wounds) Now is there anyway to reduce the target number or speed the healing process?

Thanks for your time and input.
Bit_Buckethead

[Kanada Ten]

IIRC, It is too late for First Aid when he goes to the hospital, so he wouldn't pay that :nuyen: 200 :D

[BitBasher]

I believe there are bonuses to that roll from being in a hospital or clinic, which he is.

[Kanada Ten]

I think those rules are in Man & Machine though, not the Core Book.

I can't figure out how Victor got no success against target number 7. Might as well use most of the Spell Pool for casting since Stun is easy to heal and maxed at Serious in this case. He must have been throwing eight dice at least, right?

[bit_buckethead]

Victor was using 11 dice on the heal, (Sorcery/Spellcasting [5/7] and 4 Spell Pool) but 10 ones and a 4 doesn't get the job done. I have seen worse our decker critical failed with 13.

Bit_Buckethead

[Kanada Ten]

Ouch. I guess 20K is cheap for not geeking yourself.

[RedmondLarry]

After Victor's wounds are reduced from Serious to Moderate, I'd allow a new Body roll to determine if he can recover the rest of the way on his own. If his Body will handle it, Victor can recover from a Moderate wound on his own if he's got a Middle Lifestyle. This may save him several thousand nuyen.

One final point. The book says "Successful use of either [Treat or Heal spells] precludes the use of additional healing or treating spells..." (SR3.127). With this wording, it appears that unsuccessful use of a Treat or Heal does not preclude trying again. Many gaming groups will play otherwise, however.