Used Car discount price?, Implementing used car prices in SR Options

[DamienKnight]

My players are frequently wanting to purchase junkers to get around town with. Why pay a new car price when a used car works just a well?

So I am trying to think up a system. In reality, cars that are 3 years old often have no problems, and cost ALOT less than a new car.

But if I allow players to pay less with no penalty, I may as well just lower the prices of all vehicles in the book, because who would ever buy a brand new car?

Commonly when runners loot some old beat up gear, I apply a gremlins(1) penalty to the weapon, with its glitch effect to always be that the weapon/device broke.

SO here are my thoughts on used vehicles.

Any vehicle can be bought at the base price in the book, which represents a new or almost new vehicle (less than 3 years old, depending on how rough it was used).

They can buy a 'Used' car for 40% off the new price. 'Used' cars are assumed to be 3 to 7 years old, depending on wear and tear.

These cars have a degredation flaw. Every month of consistent use, they receive 1 box of damage. This continues to accumulate until the car dies. Runners can repair this damage as normal (base cost of 1% times the number of boxes they are getting repaired.) This represents maintenance costs.

Also, runners can buy 'Heavily Used' cars. These cars suffer from degredation as above, and in addition to that they have Gremlins. Each level of Gremlins reduces the cost by another 20% off the base vehicle price.

So for example. they are buying a Motorcycle for 10k. Rather than spending the whole amount, the runner decides to get a Used one for 6k. But they want to go even cheaper, so they go for a heavily used, with Gremlins(1). Total cost is 10,000 - 4000 (for used) and -2000 for Gremlins level 1 = 4k for a Heavily Used bike.

A Gremlins flaw can be bought down by Restoring the car. This costs 20% of the vehicles base price per level of Gremlins they are removing. Doing the work themselves reduces it to half cost (10% base vehicle cost per Gremlin level) as per the Building rules.

Thoughts?

[DireRadiant]

You could do a lot of funky math, or just assume that the cost of transportation is part of Lifestyle for most purposes. The PC's can get where they need to for day to day purposes.

For "Running" they'll need to cough up the nuyen (or steal one), but in exchange, it's a vehicle worth what they paid for it. E.g. if they paid full price for a Nissan jackrabbit, it's a nice safe Jackrabbit with a clean history.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

If I recall correctly Arsenal says used cars cost between 60% and 30% of the original price, right?

Here is my suggestion:

Mint/near mint: no gremlins and full price.
Old Car I: gremlins 1 and 40% discount
Old Car II: gremlins 2 and 50% discount
Old Car III: gremlins 3 and 60% discount
Old Car IV: gremlins 4 and 70% discount

As the players start spending money to fix the car (pay the missing percentage to full price) the car will reduce its Gremlin (and yes, from Gremlin to no gremlins you will pay 40% of the car's price.

[Yerameyahu]

It's a 20-50% discount, and the suggestions are: "Perhaps the vehicle has damage that cannot be repaired, or is a lemon that suffers the equivalent of the Gremlins quality, p. 81, SR4, applied to all Vehicle Tests."

We've talked about Gremlins (and Gremlins 1-4 maps fine to 20, 30, 40, 50% off); what about the irreparable damage?

[Manunancy]

In my opnion the simplest way to manage this 'irreparabl damage' would be to have one (or more) damage already filled in the car's condition monitor to reflect it's acumulated wear and tear. Which might translate as penalties to drving the car if ther's enough of it.

Note that in that case hte damge isn't irreparable because it's materialy impossible to fix, but rather because fixing it would be more expensive than buying a better car. Pointles unles the cr is a collector item.

[Yerameyahu]

Hm. I always assumed the irreparable damage *meant* 'filled boxes of condition monitor that can't be repaired'. I just meant 'how much do you guys think is appropriate?' Maybe 1 box/10%, or some combination of Gremlins (x) and boxes (y) to equal %off/10. Or per 10% off *after* the first 10%, in order to bring us back to (20, 30, 40, 50).

[Eratosthenes]

You could also decrease random stats. Maybe reduce it's Body/Armor ratings, due to wear and tear. Or drop the Handling by one, thanks to worn shocks. Decrease the time it can operate from worse efficiency. You could also penalize social skill checks if the character shows up somewhere in a beater (just try to get into that high class hotel or restaurant driving a Gaz you only paid half price for).

Even today, it makes more sense to buy a used car than a new one, yet people still buy new cars.

I believe Arsenal does mention that it takes longer to find used cars than it does new ones, too. Enforce the availability of them, as well. They could also be a hook for a run; what if that used car had a secret smuggling compartment in it that wasn't empty? Or it was hot, or linked to a crime, which is why the previous owner's unloading it?

Gremlins/Damage is only just the beginning...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kronk2]

well the fun thing about buying a used car is you have no clue what the owner has done to it. I mean buying an old civic today is kinda a gamble. you have a 45% chance of it being tuned in some way.

[Banaticus]

well the fun thing about buying a used car is you have no clue what the owner has done to it.

Arsenal p104, "Second-hand car dealers can be sleazy folks, so runners are encouraged to bring their mechanic pal when inspecting the ride."

[Ol' Scratch]

I just apply a 50% discount on vehicles during character creation, and leave the Used Car modifier for in-game purchases. Vehicles are a necessity in the modern world, and with the limited amount of wealth characters get during character creation, they could use a break.

I honestly think a basic vehicle should be included with any lifestyle of Low or higher, with Low getting a Used Subcompact, Middle getting a Sedan, High getting a Luxury Sedan or Sportscar, and Luxury getting whatever they want. All as baseline models, anyway. Afterall, its a lifestyle, not just a home. And yes, I am aware of the optional rule for High and Luxury lifestyles along those same lines.

I just don't have the energy or the desire to go and map it out to the level that it deserves to be a functional rule.

[Karoline]

I honestly think a basic vehicle should be included with any lifestyle of Low or higher

It is actually. The lifestyle rules mention that they include the ability to get from point a to point b. I think squatter is the use of buses, and low is cabs, middle is renting a car, high is having a car 'long term', and luxury is several high end cars with their own metahuman chauffeurs.

[Banaticus]

Buying your own vehicle is only necessary if you're living a squatter's lifestyle and want to store stuff in the trunk.

[Ol' Scratch]

It is actually.

No it isn't.

SR4A, p. 267, Lifestyles: "Likewise, while lifestyle accounts for the costs of maintaining a vehicle (or paying for other methods of transportation), it does not account for the cost of a vehicle itself—that must be purchased separately."

You were saying? The only place where including vehicles with a lifestyle occurs in the optional lifestyle rules in Runner's Companion, and then it only occurs with High and Luxury lifestyles, granting them leased vehicles.

[Yerameyahu]

Karoline clearly was talking about transportation, not 'vehicles'. You corrected the wrong error. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, a little car is pretty cheap. I can't see anyone not being able to afford a basic, permanent vehicle, and that's assuming they even need it.

[Karoline]

Karoline clearly was talking about transportation, not 'vehicles'. You corrected the wrong error. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, sorry, guess I was wrong about including a vehicle at middle, but the physical ability to get from point A to B is included in the lifestyle, just like going out to buy a drink is included in the lifestyle. If there is enough in a lifestyle to maintain a vehicle, then there is enough to get bus tokens or the occasional taxi ride if you don't have a vehicle.