Shinobi Tadition, more about magic ninjas Options

[Red-ROM]

I got my hands on Vice last weekend, and I couldn't believe it! I'm trying to make an Oni magic ninja, and they have a whole section about Ninja's, including an Oni clan!

So they mentioned the practice of Shinobi, so I want this as my tradition, but I don't think it exists in the books. SO anyone want to take a stab at it, or point me to it if i've overlooked it?

[Karoline]

I'm guessing you did the other mage ninja thing as well?

I think part of the problem is that ninja are more generally viewed (I think) as adepts than mages. They could do things that were just outside the range of human possibility. They are practically they definition of what an adept is actually.

That said, it would likely be an intuition tradition. Not so sure about the spirits... Man, earth, plant, task, and... was there a warrior spirit? Guardian maybe? I'd have to take a closer look to be certain or assign what is what. Maybe tomorrow if I have time.

[Ascalaphus]

I'd say just use the Shinto tradition.. I don't think ninjas necessarily have a unique magical paradigm, although they might have different moral perspective.

[RedFish]

Seeing as the popular view of ninjas are unlikely to ever have existed, I'd say a ninja tradition can be whatever you'd like it to be

[Red-ROM]

Seeing as the popular view of ninjas are unlikely to ever have existed, I'd say a ninja tradition can be whatever you'd like it to be

the popular view of wizards probably never existed either, but they've put some guidelines in the game anyway

I think shinto is a little too "friendly", make the Kami happy kina thing, also Vice describes an Oni clan of ninja practicing Shinobi, and I think it would probably be an intuition tradition (seeing as Oni are gimped in logic and charisma)

[Ascalaphus]

Intuition seems reasonable anyway, it touches on a lot of ninja skills (Initiative, Perception..)

Don't discount Shinto too fast; I'm sure not all Kami are equally happy flower-powery. Japanese mysticism will have its own share of dark spirits.

For some ideas about "dark kami", check out the Kamigawa-block of Magic the Gathering.

[Red-ROM]

Intuition seems reasonable anyway, it touches on a lot of ninja skills (Initiative, Perception..)

Don't discount Shinto too fast; I'm sure not all Kami are equally happy flower-powery. Japanese mysticism will have its own share of dark spirits.

For some ideas about "dark kami", check out the Kamigawa-block of Magic the Gathering.

I was in rehab for Magic, I can't go near the stuff

[Red-ROM]

Ok here's what I'm thinking:

Shinobi-jutsu

Also called Kuji-kiri, is an esoteric practice which, when performed with an array of hand "seals" (kuji-in), was meant to allow the ninja to enact superhuman feats.

Combat: Air
Detection: Guidance
Health: Plant
Illusion: Water
Manipulation: Man

Drain: Willpower+Intuition

(edit)

The Shinobi-jutsu is half matial arts and half religion. It has roots in Taoism,Shinto, and Buddhism. Practitioners condensed from these traditions "Nine Characters" these were the secret keys of the universe. when used correctly, they could grant powers, summon magical effects, contact buhddist divinities or compell the Kami. To wield these characters took strength of body and soul. One has to be strong of heart and will to command such power. The cahracters themselves are a highly guarded secret, and the practice of Shinobi-jutsu is rarely found outside of the Ninja clans of Japan.

[Karoline]

Also called Kuji-kiri, is an esoteric practice which, when performed with an array of hand "seals" (kuji-in), was meant to allow the ninja to enact superhuman feats.

[Insert joke about a ninja in an orange jumpsuit here]

[Shinobi Killfist]

First off this has to be your background in order to join the ninja clan.

Joe Armstrong, an orphaned drifter with little respect for much other than martial arts, finds himself on an Army base in The Philippines after a judge gives him a choice of enlistment or prison. On one of his first missions driving a convoy, his platoon is attacked by a group of rebels who try to steal the weapons the platoon is transporting and kidnap Patricia, the base colonel's daughter, who happens to be along for the ride. Joe rescues Patricia and gets her safely back to the base, but everyone else in the platoon is killed, leading his superiors to conclude that Joe is guilty of cowardice, collaboration or simple incompetence. At the same time, the rebel leader vows revenge against the serviceman who disrupted his plans, and sends an army of ninjas to assassinate him and bring back Patricia. If he wants to survive and save the girl, Joe's going to have to draw on every last ounce of his training.

You will be the UCAS ninja.....

[Falconer]

Typical overpowered tradition....

Pick 3 top flight spirits... and intuition as the drain stat. (plant, guidance, and man), then round it out w/ two of the best of the remaining.

No overriding philosophical basis of the tradition is given. IE: hermetics... air fire water earth are the 'elements' of the world... man then rounds it out. Wuxing uses the 4 fundamental 'chinese' elements that make up the world plus guidance IIRC. If someone put this in front of me, I'd reject it.



As far as shinto goes... the post shows a large degree of ignorance on what shinto is. It's not a singular tradition, there is no single large 'god'. There are a lot of spirits... some small, harmless and benign, others quite malevolent and powerful. An Oni is actually a manifestation of one of those spirits. The name got taken over for the japanese metatype variant though.


I also agree strongly w/ the others. Ninja are practically THE template for adepts. Japanese magic users are pretty much purely the domain of the Onmyoji, buddhist tradition, or Shinto Priests. Trying to get any kind of a historical basis is a joke, as ninja's etc... are great on the rule of cool (so are great ideas for PCs), but mostly a popular outgrowth of the early japanese film industry.

[Red-ROM]

Typical overpowered tradition....

Pick 3 top flight spirits... and intuition as the drain stat. (plant, guidance, and man), then round it out w/ two of the best of the remaining.

No overriding philosophical basis of the tradition is given. IE: hermetics... air fire water earth are the 'elements' of the world... man then rounds it out. Wuxing uses the 4 fundamental 'Chinese' elements that make up the world plus guidance IIRC. If someone put this in front of me, I'd reject it.



As far as Shinto goes... the post shows a large degree of ignorance on what Shinto is. It's not a singular tradition, there is no single large 'god'. There are a lot of spirits... some small, harmless and benign, others quite malevolent and powerful. An Oni is actually a manifestation of one of those spirits. The name got taken over for the Japanese metatype variant though.


I also agree strongly w/ the others. Ninja are practically THE template for adepts. Japanese magic users are pretty much purely the domain of the Onmyoji, Buddhist tradition, or Shinto Priests. Trying to get any kind of a historical basis is a joke, as ninjas etc... are great on the rule of cool (so are great ideas for PCs), but mostly a popular outgrowth of the early Japanese film industry.

ignoring flame bait...

I make character's from "Big trouble little china" not "last emperor of the sun" so the "Ninja" tradition is clearly not based in real Japanese history, although the "Nine Characters" is a mysticism shared by Shinto and Buddhism. so I combined the spirit list of Shinto and Buddhism, picking what I thought was most fitting the only real change was using water for illusions(just because I thought it would look cool). The character I'm making doesn't even summon spirits. I understand there are "8 million" Kami, I don't know where you got otherwise. did I not use the correct plural form of Kami? is it Kamis?
I wouldn't mind some constructive criticism, or Input on what you might do different. The goal still being ninjas that can turn invisible and shoot lightning

[McCummhail]

Ninjutsu mysticism (kuji-kiri and such) comes from a Buddhist / Taoist off-shoot.
I think Buddhism would be more of what you are looking for.
It is intuition and has some overlap with your concept above.
This being a very esoteric style you would need specific masters to train from.

[I Hate All Life]

ignoring flame bait...

I make character's from "Big trouble little china" not "last emperor of the sun" so the "Ninja" tradition is clearly not based in real Japanese history, although the "Nine Characters" is a mysticism shared by Shinto and Buddhism. so I combined the spirit list of Shinto and Buddhism, picking what I thought was most fitting the only real change was using water for illusions(just because I thought it would look cool). The character I'm making doesn't even summon spirits. I understand there are "8 million" Kami, I don't know where you got otherwise. did I not use the correct plural form of Kami? is it Kamis?
I wouldn't mind some constructive criticism, or Input on what you might do different. The goal still being ninjas that can turn invisible and shoot lightning

I think Falconer brings up some valid points. You might not agree with he says, but you shouldn't discount what he says as "flame bait" just because it's not supportive of your view. (As a newcomer I don't know much about Falconer's posting history here, or anyone's. If he is known here as a malcontent and often starts arguments this way, then I may be wrong. But based on just what he said I think it's unfair to up and disregard him. He took the time to reply, after all.)

And "kami" is used in both the singular and plural form, at least from what I've seen.

For my part, I have no problems with your tradition design. You seem to have put thought into it and your thematics are spot-on. Personally, I'd probably go with either Shinto or Buddhism for ninja characters rather than creating an entirely new Shinobi tradition; both these traditions are flexible enough to support ninja concepts, just like shamanism includes a wide variety of styles and practices. The way I see it, Shinobi is at once a martial arts practice, a vocation and a way of life, but it's not necessarily a mystical philosophy in its own right. It being a tradition in the classical sense and it being a magical tradition are two different things. Certainly many ninja would be mystically inclined in an Awakened world, but there are ways to model this without making a new tradition for them out of whole cloth. And I can also see certain ninja clans dispensing with the mystical angle altogether, using stealth, misdirection and assassination but focusing entirely on technological ways to accomplish this. But that's my interpretation. I'm not shooting your ideas down or saying I'm right.

However they're expressed, I'd see ninja mostly as Adepts and Mystical Adepts, with a few pure Magicians thrown in.

[Karoline]

And "kami" is used in both the singular and plural form, at least from what I've seen.

Correct. The Japanese language doesn't have a distinction between singular and plural, so kami could mean a single kami or multiple kami. Kami also has several meanings, including God, god, and spirit.

[McCummhail]

Ninjutsu mysticism (kuji-kiri and such) comes from a Buddhist / Taoist off-shoot.
I think Buddhism or Wu-xing would be close to what you are looking for.
Buddhism is intuition and has some overlap with your concept above.

As ninja, both realistic and fantastic, were not always the flip out and kill someone martial badasses.
Stories and facts portray "ninja" that were not adepts or even mystic adepts, but rather straight up magicians/herbalists

The mysticism is tied to the idea of elements: Fire (火） Earth (土) Metal (金) Water (水) Wood (木)
The manuals of ninjutsu techniques utilized these classical Chinese elements.
I think Plant = Health is a solid choice for the historical ninja.
All elements yielded illusion and evasion but Fire was the most prominent with smoke bombs to trail clearing to distractions.
Earth was often an element for manipulating things, earthenware to "walk on water", tunneling, "changing shape" into rocks or beasts, etc.
Detection was not linked specifically to an element. Esoteric divination was sometimes used. Tea leaves, aura reading, elemental calculations, fortune sticks, are some examples.
Combat (which was not the primary realm of ninja, they had samurai for that) is another one that doesn't sink to a particular element well. Metal weapons were used though...

On a more fantastic level, there have been so many different interpretations that the sky is the limit.

[I Hate All Life]

Correct. The Japanese language doesn't have a distinction between singular and plural, so kami could mean a single kami or multiple kami. Kami also has several meanings, including God, god, and spirit.

Arigato. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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As ninja, both realistic and fantastic, were not always the flip out and kill someone martial badasses.
Stories and facts portray "ninja" that were not adepts or even mystic adepts, but rather straight up magicians/herbalists

I can see straight-up Magicians being ninja, sure. The reason I think Adept and Mystical Adept works so well is because ninja were attributed with physical and martial prowess bordering on the supernatural. While that's possible with spellcasting, with Adepts it's an inherent quality and so far more useful in a fight -- the time it takes for you to cast a martial spell is all the time it takes for a samurai to cut you in twain or Area CorpCop to blow you away. And Mystical Adept works even better as a mythical ninja than a pure Adept, as some spellcasting ability can cover such legendary abilities walking over water and rice paper without disturbing them, conjuring smoke, magical silence, walking through walls and such.

[jimbo]

I make character's from "Big trouble little china"

Ah...so I assume you don't drive faster than you can see either?