Cheating for joining a Magical Group?, Dang! Look at that threshold! Options

[Draco18s]

Personally I think it would be up to the group whether or not existing group members can Teamwork Test the ritual or not.

As for the skill used (Knitting, Bugle-playing, Arcana) basically makes no sense what so ever, regardless of tradition. The Arcana skill isn't used for that (Knitting honestly makes about as much sense).

[jimbo]

the applicant makes the test. just like a hacker makes a test in the matrix. is the hacker somehow constrained from getting a teamwork benefit? no. no he isn't. because that would be an asinine interpretation of the rules.

who helps the applicant? why the group he's trying to join, of course. each of whom have the arcana skill, based on the fact that they tried to join the group.

Great, so even buying hits to save time the GM needs to decide the Arcana/Logic dp for all the members present to see how much they add, how many of those members are present and willing to help. Please note that by your interpretation, joining the Mystic Crusaders at 33 members is now a snap. At 1 hit apiece they just added 33 to the applicant's dice pool. That makes even the dumbest magician with the lamest Arcana skill (1+1) a shoe-in.

Reminds me of Animal House. "We need the dudes. Let him in." Talk about lowering the bar. Seriously, it's the applicant being tested for his worthiness to join the group. He's on his own.

and again, consider what a magic group is: they're a group dedicated to studying the deeper mysteries of magic (ie initiating). if you can't even write a damn spell down (or craft a proper sculpture, or whatever your tradition does to create spell formulae) then what the hell do you expect to contribute to such a group?

How about Ritual Spellcasting 6, a Manabolt spell for those harrowing journies to the metaplanes, dues, contacts, magical muscle, ward duties. I can go on. The initiatory "deeper mysteries of metamagic" and Arcana skill only cross paths a very few times EXCEPT that it is the skill used to join groups.

[Dumori]

Great, so even buying hits to save time the GM needs to decide the Arcana/Logic dp for all the members present to see how much they add, how many of those members are present and willing to help. Please note that by your interpretation, joining the Mystic Crusaders at 33 members is now a snap. At 1 hit apiece they just added 33 to the applicant's dice pool. That makes even the dumbest magician with the lamest Arcana skill (1+1) a shoe-in.

You forget team work bonus dice are limited by your skill so the most you'd ever get is +10 for an arcana spec'd adept/mystic adept

[Draco18s]

You forget team work bonus dice are limited by your skill so the most you'd ever get is +10 for an arcana spec'd adept/mystic adept

So an Arcana 1 character can't join groups (of 10+), even with the teamwork bonus unless they get lucky.

[Shinobi Killfist]

So an Arcana 1 character can't join groups (of 10+), even with the teamwork bonus unless they get lucky.

Not without using edge nope. But edge 3+logic3+arcana1+teamwork1=8 dice and with exploding sixes I'd say average 3 successes(no I did not do the math) which isn't bad for most magical groups. Since you are spending karma I think they could just drop the test entirely, or at least change it to pay karma after success.

[Jaid]

How about Ritual Spellcasting 6, a Manabolt spell for those harrowing journies to the metaplanes, dues, contacts, magical muscle, ward duties. I can go on. The initiatory "deeper mysteries of metamagic" and Arcana skill only cross paths a very few times EXCEPT that it is the skill used to join groups.

any of those things can be done without forming a magical initiatory group. in fact, a group is more likely to restrict your ability to do those things conveniently by requiring that you only do them with that specific group or in specific circumstances... if you just want all the rest of that, you can just join a policlub with magicians in it, or just have a few magician contacts with whom you exchange services. the *only* thing forming a group using the initiatory group rules does, is let you initiate more easily, and as such that is presumably their purpose (since, as i just pointed out, any of those other reasons have absolutely no requirement for paying 5 karma and taking on various oaths and strictures that are likely to be part of joining an initiatory group).