Making a Prime runner Options

[Dumori]

To much karma and BP to spend.
I'm looking at 1000BP 1000karma prime runner with a nuyen ceiling at about 10-15mil.
I just cant build anythign that really makes the most of this power lvl.

I'm wanting to build a really nasty NPC then biuld an adventure arch around him for my long running group. I know some of you really love chargen and soem of you are rich in char op tricks. So Dumshock lets see what you can build. I want something that will challeng my PCs in a nasty way. As SR is a game of glass cannons a stright out tank is unlikey to work.

And dont worry about going over the nuyen limit.

[HappyDaze]

Agent Smith - How a bout a bastard that kidnaps others and cosmetically modifies them to look like himself while also giving them personafixes to act like him, only subservient to the 'prime' bastard through some heavy psychotropics in their headware. If the PCs can't beat him, they might just join him!

[Yerameyahu]

With that kind of setup, you can do literally anything, can't you? I'd just handwave at that point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dumori]

I don't like hand waving I liek to some times hand my PCs the sheet afterwards so so them it was ligit.

[Teulisch]

interesting... well thats 500 points for attributes, before karma, so you will have everything at 5 and 6, with one 7 if you want it. lets say around 50 points for contacts, as a nice number that should cover whatever he needs. that leaves a good 450 for skills. you could get several skill groups at 6, and have points left to spare.

this guys could go two ways really- magic with multiple increases to his magic, or cybernetic with some very nice beta/delta ware. if you want to use him against the PCs then hes gonna need to go with the magic. but thats enough karma to make a mystic adept dangerous.

lets assume he initiates in a group with an ordeal. for 366 karma you could get your starting magic of 6 up to 14. thats a lot of magic, and a mystic adept with say 6 magic for spellcasting, improved reflexes 3, and 3 other points of adept magic would be a fairly dangerous person. but then a 14 magic mage is just plain scary if done right.

you want nasty? dont worry yourself about the numbers. just give him an attribute and a skill at 7, the rest of the stuff he needs to use at 6, a couple useful qualities, and enough gear and contacts to do his job as plot requires. forget the rest of the points as they wont matter. lets say its a mage who does hit-sim hacking with a high-end deck. not a combo most people expect, but if he can trace you then he can send a spirit to do things to you fairly quickly.

[tagz]

I would say make him a mystic adept. The classic struggle for mystic adepts is that they end up spreading their karma too thin. With a prime runner using those kinds of numbers that shouldn't be an issue.

For extra fun, you can even cyber him up and buy back the lost magic through initiations galore. I did something similar with my prime runner "Rift Wrath" (I know, silly pun but I like 'em (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ).

[Dumori]

A drake mystic adept...

[Banaticus]

I'm looking at 1000BP 1000karma prime runner with a nuyen ceiling at about 10-15mil.

Wasn't that how Dunkelzahn was created? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

lets assume he initiates in a group with an ordeal. for 366 karma you could get your starting magic of 6 up to 14.

Even when in a group and doing ordeals, it would still cost at least 536 karma to get to magic 14. I do the math here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31038

[Karoline]

Soo much karma....

*Disappears into the character workshop*

[Udoshi]

With that much karma, you really don't need to optimize or post nasty builds. There's little point beyond putting down hugely-high dice pools for whatever you decide the concept of this guy ought to be.

Instead, you may want to focus on making a *cool concept*, fleshing -that- out, and then applying way to much karma.

I'll start. how bout a Fixer. Someone your runnerse have offended in the past. Perhaps their names were just a *convenient* target for a framejob. Someone who has resources, hideouts, and.... more importantly, knows people. He acts through them, tries to make their life crap. Your fixer may not be awakened or a TM - but he can trade favors to a few virtuakinetics he knows, and have them, say.... trade a mansion for whipping up a sprite each morning, and having it mess with a person - basically giving them Gremlins. and the best part is, if he works through the shadows and other people, it may be a bit before your players realize/figure out who's got it in for them - letting you build up suspence, aggravation, and putting your party in the mood for getting even when they manage to find the end boss.

[tagz]

I agree with Udoshi that the concept is likely much more important then the actual stats when making a prime runner.

Big dice pools don't make a character memorable, his/her/it's personality and style do. A prime runner should be a bit "larger then life" in some way. Can come in many forms.

My prime's concept is that he is obsessed with personal growth and power. His style is that of a stealth assassin trained in both magical and physical arts. He has collected a number of magical items to aid him, and also uses STOA weaponry, armor, etc. He doesn't bother with the matrix, but has strong ICs and is prepared to abandon his tech if need be. He also uses underhanded but effective tactics.

Goals? None really. He used to have them, but he long since fulfilled them. Now he continues to run because he has nothing else. He seeks high risk missions, mostly just to remind himself he is still alive.

There is much more to him, but that's the short version.

[Udoshi]

His style is that of a stealth assassin trained in both magical and physical arts. He has collected a number of magical items to aid him, and also uses STOA weaponry, armor, etc.

Hah! I like it. I can picture it already: 'If you thought the red samurai armor was bad ass enough, you should see what the ninja did with the idea.'

[Yerameyahu]

Like I said, hand-wave. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) At some point, it's just a 'Professional Rating' of 8, 10, 12…

[Udoshi]

Like I said, hand-wave. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) At some point, it's just a 'Professional Rating' of 8, 10, 12…

You can't handwave style.

[Karoline]

[ Spoiler ]

Prime Spirt
Race: Free Spirit 250
Atributes: 475
Bod:5 40 Str:5 40 Log:5 40 Edge:10 65 (170)
Agi:5 40 Cha:5 40 Wil:10(18) 65 (170) Ess:12
Rea:5(18) 40 Int:5(18) 40 Ini:10(39) IP:2(4) Force:12 65 (285)

Qualities: 20
Aptitude (spellcasting) 10
Aptitude (counterspelling) 10
Enemy (The PCs) -25
Vindictive -10

Skills: 258
Spellcasting (Manipulation) 7 34
Counterspelling (Combat) 7 18 (50)
Astral Combat (Magician) 6 18 (22)
Ritual Spellcasting (Manipulation) 18
Assensing (Aura Reading) 4 18
Arcana (Manipulation) 4 18
Enchanting (Alchemy) 4 18
Unarmed Combat (Blocking) 6 18 (22)
Dodge (Ranged) 6 18 (22)
Influence 4 40
Con 4
Etiquette 4
Leadership 4
Negotiation 4
Animal Husbandry 4 40
Animal Handling 4
Animal Training 4
Riding 4
VetTech 4

Knowledge Skills:


Magic:
Join Group (5)
Initiation 10 (8+10+12+14+15+17+19+21+23+24)
Centering
Masking
Quickening
Shielding
Absorption
Extended Masking
PP x 4
Quickened F18 Increase Willpower (18)
Quickened F12 Deflection (12)
Quickened F18 Increase Intuition (18)
Quickened F18 Increase Reaction (18)
Quickened F10 Increase Reflexes (10)

Powers:
Friendship Pact *
Accident .5
Animal Control 1
Binding 2
Realistic Form .5
Mutable Form 1
Personal Domain 3
Engulf 2
Life Pact 1
Energy Aura 3

Spells:30 (15)
Slaughter Human(species)
Stunbolt
Deflection
Shape Plasteel
Decrease Reflexes
Increase Willpower
Increase Reaction
Increase Intuition
Increase Reflexes
Mob Control
Mob Mind
Physical Barrier
Glue Strip

Contacts: 2
Some guy 1/1

Equipment:
Lots and lots and lots and lots of pets.

Enough counterspelling to be immune to spells, enough astral combat to be immune to astral threaths, 24/24 hardened armor to be immune to attacks even if they could hit the 30 defense dice it gets without taking a full defense, energy aura just in case someone wants to tango, quickened spells have 12 + F x 2 dice to resist dispelling, 46 dice to resist drain, 19-21 dice to cast spells. Oh, and don't forget, has a 120,000 square meter rating 6 aspected background count at their lair. Oh, also, the 10 edge to play with.

While I'm sure there is some theoretical way to defeat this character, I don't know that any normal sort of runner group will be able to manage it, especially since the spirit can always vacate the physical plane if things get too difficult there.

I suppose an adept or something with a weapon focus would be the most likely way to defeat this spirit, though it is still rolling 26 dice to defend against a melee attack.

[Udoshi]

I'm pretty sure a thunderstruck rifle can do it. AP half -4 is -ridiculous-.

Your math on the stats is wrong. Force is the only thing that matters for free spirits, since it sets the minimums and maximum. A force 12 spirits has 24 hardened armor, 12 magic, 12 edge, 12 in all stats.

[Karoline]

I'm pretty sure a thunderstruck rifle can do it. AP half -4 is -ridiculous-.

Yes, that is one of the few things that can actually do damage, but they have to hit first, which is fairly difficult against a DP of 30.

Your math on the stats is wrong. Force is the only thing that matters for free spirits, since it sets the minimums and maximum. A force 12 spirits has 24 hardened armor, 12 magic, 12 edge, 12 in all stats.

Haven't we had this discussion before? Wasn't it generally accepted that F != all stats? I mean if so, great, I get 340 karma and 400ish BP back, but I don't think that the entry for free spirits was meant to indicate that minimum = F and thus all stats = F. It would make free spirits rather stupidly powerful after all because they could easily start with 6s in all stats. Remember, the entry says that minimum is based on force, not that it is equal to force. They just never mention how it is based on force. Would likely have 7s or so in all stats for free though now that I think about it, because I've always taken minimum to be maximum - 5, and maximum is very clearly stated as being equal to force.

[Critias]

Have fun building a big-bad for them to tussle with, but watch your players when you're using him. A good game should be challenging, occasionally surprising, sometimes fear-inducing...but always fun.

Don't get carried away with the godlike NPC, and lose track of the rest of the game.

[Doc Chaos]

Sorry, but that thing is not a Prime Runner (why the hell would an Edge 10 Free Spirit need to run the shadows?) and with its powerlevel and capabilities its basically a prime Handwavium Group Killium. The DPs are so ridiculously high, why even bother rolling. Just tell your guys they were ripped to shred by something so powerful a Great Dragon would have to fear it and they need to make new characters.

[Udoshi]

Haven't we had this discussion before? Wasn't it generally accepted that F != all stats? I mean if so, great, I get 340 karma and 400ish BP back, but I don't think that the entry for free spirits was meant to indicate that minimum = F and thus all stats = F. It would make free spirits rather stupidly powerful after all because they could easily start with 6s in all stats. Remember, the entry says that minimum is based on force, not that it is equal to force. They just never mention how it is based on force. Would likely have 7s or so in all stats for free though now that I think about it, because I've always taken minimum to be maximum - 5, and maximum is very clearly stated as being equal to force.

I don't think so, but someone I know very recently rolled a free spirit character, and I've been helping. Page 92 in the RC very clearly says Force acts as a natural minimum and maximum for all attributes, right in the second sentence.

Which makes sense. In the regular spirit rules, a spirit uses Force for everything. Its only when physically manifesting that they get their statboosts(i know there's a clause which says astral combat is at just Force values, somewhere.) Its kind of a pain in the ass, though. If you want just one more point in an attribute ...... you have to take Exceptional attribute, which is way overpriced for that purpose. Why spend 20 points when you can just raise force!

Granted, that entire paragraph is worded very poorly. But, like regular spirits, Force is really the only thing that matters. Yes. High force spirits are freakishly powerful. Free spirits.......... even more so.

[Karoline]

Just real quick:

Free spirits have a Force special attribute that starts with a rating
of 2. This attribute determines a free spirit’s natural minimums
and maximums for all attributes.

Notice it says 'determines', not 'is equal to'

I do admit though that it is horridly worded. But if they really wanted all stats equal to force, why didn't they just say "All of a spirit's attributes are equal to its force" instead of talking about minimums and maximums?

[Neraph]

I have an idea.

An AI Prime Runner that's Home Node is in a cloning facility (possibly/probably part of a larger facility, as in he owns 8 or 16 rooms inside a main medical hospital and none of the staff know he's there) that uses Type O bland clones of vanilla humans to interact with the world via a Stirrup Interface (and his Piloting Origins, of course). To make things even worse, toss in some additional 'ware to the clones, and since they're Type O, they can accept a heckalota bioware.

The part that makes this hard is that even with R1 Stirrup Interface, this guy's got 3 IP, and he goes at his Matrix Initiative, which will be over the twenties. Also, if/when the team kills his body, he's still in his Home Node, slightly peeved that they ruined his couple hundred thousand nuyen "car." When he shows back up in the same body (well, different body, cloned and geared the exact same way), the team will be all "WTFH?!?" When they kill him again, and he shows back up again, they'll start doing interesting things like beheadding him, burning his body, dropping him in acid, or the like, and with no avail, since he's a jumped-in clone rigger.

And best of all, since he's an AI, he doesn't take Dumpshock or Biofeedback.

[Dumori]

a randomly fun fact with clones is that being type o and clones delta wear can be mass produced it suite for them as well. As delta is made to fit your phiscial and genetic suitability as well as possible. Thus type o clones with the same DNA ect and froce grown in the same enviroment would have be able to have delta ware made in suites and en mass for them.

[Neraph]

True, but delta grade is going to be so expensive that it's not worth it, especially not with your disposable bodies. Remember, Essense isn't a problem because if the AI doesn't like how an implant is working, he can either take it out or get a new body. Your standard Street Sammy can't really do that.

Also, keep in mind that most implants do things that by simple fact of this character being an AI jumped into a drone you'd be bypassing. No MBW 3, no Synaptic Booster 3, no Reflex Enhancers, no Pain Editor...

[Dumori]

Delta is madly expencive due to it having to be 100% custom made for each person beta is partly bespoke alpha is just better quaility. I'm saying fluffwise delta quality implant if the right inforstructer was it place could likely be made at the price of beta ware due to tge fact your moving to a standard template not a custom job per one.