Battletech is the same world as Shadowrun? Options

[Valashar]

If you went strictly by the calendar year in BattleTech (31st century), then it would still be solidly in the first half of the Sixth World (started in 2011, and the cycles are on a roughly 5000 year rotation). The Horrors wouldn't be due for another millennia or so. Our group (mainly just the GM and I, since we're roomies) have banded 'what ifs' and 'maybe this' ideas about blending concepts from BT into SR, but usually just when one of us (generally me) is fairly hammered. Spent most of the time discussing how to use the astral forms of given planets as a means of interstellar communication to bypass the HPG networks and other such silliness.

[hermit]

There is no "have to". If your want to play your infected as chaste emos or goths engaged in byzantine plots that's perfectly valid - but I really can't see how this is a problem of the rules, your criticism is like intentionally driving your car into a wall and then complaining that it's possible and the results are what could be expected.

They are unnescessary as PC option. They don't add anything to a game except emoness or more bloodlust and gorn.

And the rules support this, with emotional bond when feeding, cannibalist food requirements, ect. Also, they retconned the infected massively with RC, making a number of them suddenly sentient, and making wendigos effectively ghousl with hiar, which takes away the entire concept of a wendigo.

The rules are crap. They may work as intended, but within canon, within the game world, and looking at them from a perspective of what they add to a game, it comes down to emoness, gorn and nothing else.

[Sengir]

The rules are crap.

Und wenn der Bauer nicht schwimmen kann ist die Badehose kaputt, oder das Wasser nicht griffig genug.

If you can only play vampires as emos and goths, your vampire PCs will obviously be emos and goths - that's a problem with the playing style, not with the rules

and making wendigos effectively ghousl with hiar

And influence power, and the need for human auras (no eating rats and stuff), and mages across the board, and of course the fluff still mentions their fondness for secreat cabals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Grinder]

If you can only play vampires as emos and goths, your vampire PCs will obviously be emos and goths - that's a problem with the playing style, not with the rules

The RC-stuff about Infected is debatable, but do so in another thread, ok?

[tete]

This has been a long debated issue and the official answer over the years has been Yes and No. Meaning any cross overs you see (at leased in the beginning) we not done on purpose, where later authors chose to drop hints (if any)was entirely inside jokes. For the record Comstar (while spooky and all knowing) is not made up of Immortal Elves or Dragons.

[Furluge]

Anybody remember the Orca Class Mech for Battletech? *snickers*

Ha ha, yeah, I've got that little gem saved somewhere...

But then WizKids spoiled it by actually making Colossal class mechs that were over 100 tons. I nearly #%@! a brick when I saw it.

I once believed this, but was informed that Battletech has history back to the Soviet Union which verifiably lacks the Awakening.
~J

Yeah, there is that. There's also the fact that Battletech (1984 with Battledroids) is about five years older than Shadowrun, which means they'd have had to have planned for Shadowrun to be in the background before Battledroids had taken off. That's a pretty tall order considering it wouldn't add much to Battletech's fiction. Now the Earthdawn/Shadowrun connection seems to be much more likely.

[Stahlseele]

Bah, the Colossal Class is only 135t at maximum, and has 3 legs . . and a crew of 3 . .
The Orca is a 200t monstrosity on 2 legs with one pilot, as it should have been with the colossals ^^

[Sengir]

But then WizKids spoiled it by actually making Colossal class mechs that were over 100 tons.

But only in that other game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Furluge]

Bah, the Colossal Class is only 135t at maximum, and has 3 legs . . and a crew of 3 . .
The Orca is a 200t monstrosity on 2 legs with one pilot, as it should have been with the colossals ^^

Yep, but it's still a mech over 100 tons, the exact number and details didn't really phase me, just that I saw a mech with 100+ tons.

Besides, the Orca was just plain silly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

But only in that other game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well remember the promise was that everything for MWDA was going to be converted to Battletech. They even printed a set of record sheets for converted units. Of course that got quickly dropped off and with MWDA dying it's been pretty much scrapped and all the record sheets from that set are invalid anyway it seems. However, considering that CGL is putting out TROs further and further into the future (3085 is the one being worked on now), they're slowly starting to cross over into MWDA territory and create new official designs for MWDA units. That means eventually we might see those Colossal class things again.

Also apparently they're getting close to finishing new rules for LAMs.

In light of those two factoids, you are all permitted to panic. ;p

[Tanegar]

Also apparently they're getting close to finishing new rules for LAMs.

LAMs, you say?

[Patrick Goodman]

Ouch, I just read up on that. So Running Wild trumps SR4A on critter powers?

I believe so, yes. And for whatever damage I've done, I apologize.

[Banaticus]

I always loved the fact that vampires in SR have nowhere to run on sucking blood. They need to do it, and when they do it they do massive and irreparable harm to their victims. Self aware victims. They can't suck rats and cry about how tortured they are. If they continue to live they are monsters, and that makes me very happy.

Look, it's darn expensive to grow an arm or an eye, right? It's a lot cheaper and easier to just force grow a type O clone and harvest what you need. That's according to the book. Now, what do you think they do with the rest of the clone? That's right, there's a thriving underground market for all the lovey-duvvy vampires to just order in a few clones and suck 'em down. When a vampire orders in Chinese, he's, well, he's really ordering in some Chinese, you know?

That being said, of course every animal has emotions -- tie 'em down and start putting matches to them and watch them squeal, then try to come back and say that the rules are wrong, they shouldn't have emotions.

[HappyDaze]

Vampires can exist on rats, puppies, or kittens - so long as they have a Great Form Guardian spirit use Endowment to grant the critter Sapience!

[Stahlseele]

Or a sperm whale, or a pot of petunias . .

[Sengir]

That means eventually we might see those Colossal class things again.

Also apparently they're getting close to finishing new rules for LAMs.

In light of those two factoids, you are all permitted to panic. ;p

Ok then...PAAAAAAANIIIIIC, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIIIIEEEEE.



In the meantime: RC says that vampires have a Dietary Requirement for metahuman blood and the description for the Essence Drain power clearly states that it only works on critters if they have the Sapience power. So regardless of the whole instincts vs. sapience vs. emotion thing, rats are out (although the trick with endowing Sapience certainly is creative (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). Clones should be OK for the Dietary Requirements, but since force-grown clones don't even have enough brains to have a Stirrup interface installed, they can't feed the hunger for essence.

Or course if you want to make things really easy for infected PCs you can accept the RC sidebar on Dietary Requirements which says "Cloned metahuman flesh and blood, including bioware, can satisfy some of these dietary requirements", thereby directly contradicting the canon fact that the Infected cannot survive on cell cultures and need something which once had a metahuman aura.

[hermit]

Vampires can exist on rats, puppies, or kittens - so long as they have a Great Form Guardian spirit use Endowment to grant the critter Sapience!

Sentience, not Sapience, is required. Anything able to suffer will do, and that DOES include most animals.

[Sengir]

Sentience, not Sapience, is required.

4A BBB, p. 294:
Essence Drain can only target physical sentient beings (characters and nonastral critters with the Sentience power).

(since there is no power called "Sentience" the author obviously meant "Sapience". The German printing corrects this)

[HappyDaze]

Yeah, it is pretty obviously supposed to be the Sapience power, which is why the Endowment trick to allow a Vampire to live off of the Essence of creatures granted Sapience is perfectly legal. Tricky workaround, certainly - something a Loki (Trickster) magician could use to great effect bargaining with the Infected!

[otakusensei]

Yeah, it is pretty obviously supposed to be the Sapience power, which is why the Endowment trick to allow a Vampire to live off of the Essence of creatures granted Sapience is perfectly legal. Tricky workaround, certainly - something a Loki (Trickster) magician could use to great effect bargaining with the Infected!

It's also equally as bad as doing to a creature who was born with Sapience. Maybe worse if you consider that you are going that extra step not onyl to torture the poor thing, but to make sure it is aware of what you are doing to it.

That's the reason I like the Sapience requirement. It gets rid of the hand waiving that has defanged the concept of the vampire. If it can do what it does with a straw just as well, I say it is no vampire.

[HappyDaze]

It's also equally as bad as doing to a creature who was born with Sapience. Maybe worse if you consider that you are going that extra step not onyl to torture the poor thing, but to make sure it is aware of what you are doing to it.

That's the reason I like the Sapience requirement. It gets rid of the hand waiving that has defanged the concept of the vampire. If it can do what it does with a straw just as well, I say it is no vampire.

Equally as "bad" perhaps, but not equally illegal. PETAES (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Endowed with Sapience) or some other bleeding heart pussies might bitch, but there's no laws against using Endowment to provide a cow with Sapience and draining it's Essence right before it's sent to the butcher for everyone else to eat.

[Patrick Goodman]

Don't have time for this part of the discussion, but man, some of you go out of your way to make things difficult. More later, I'm sure.

[Sengir]

there's no laws against using Endowment to provide a cow with Sapience and draining it's Essence right before it's sent to the butcher for everyone else to eat.

Well, there are not even laws against killing various sapient beings...like vampires for example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hermit]

Well, there are not even laws against killing various sapient beings...like vampires for example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

With RC, of course there are. It is illegal now to lynch your neighbourhood vampire unless maybe in self defense. Because, hey, you have to push your inane PC options. See Emergence.

[Delarn]

Spent most of the time discussing how to use the astral forms of given planets as a means of interstellar communication to bypass the HPG networks and other such silliness.

Metaplanes are planes ... aren't they ?

Edit: Equinox is the 8th world ... but in their presentation page they said that mankind tamed mana.

The universe looks vastly different from the one those early pioneers saw when they took to the stars. Thousands of years ago, in the golden age of ancient Earth, mankind managed to tame the mystic cycles that brought magic to their homeworld and colonies. Mankind prospered and excelled at developing their control over the mystical forces, technology, and eventually even a fusion of both.

So they are still in the 6th world of magic but in the future.

[Grinder]

Mankind found ways to store mana to overcome the mana ebb during the 7th world.