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> Cost To Raise Magic, (including initiation)
Banaticus
post May 4 2010, 10:33 PM
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The cheapest way to raise your magic -- Magic + Initiation, presuming that you're starting with 6 Magic. Total is the total cost up to that level of magic. For instance, if your GM says "make a character, then spend 400 points of karma" you could spend 361 to get magic 12 and have 39 points of karma left over. This presumes that you initiated with a group, doing some sort of ordeal each time.
CODE
Level  Init    Magic   Total
7       8       35      43
8       10      40      93
9       12      45      150
10      14      50      214
11      15      55      284
12      17      60      361
13      19      65      445
14      21      70      536
15      23      75      634
16      24      80      738
Edit: If you round up on how much you decrease the cost (see below)
then it's only 730 karma instead of 738 to hit 16 Magic.

Raising magic -- the pure cost just to raise magic. Note that the normal max is 6 and can only be raised through initiation (which is the next table)
CODE
Magic  Cost    Total
1
2       10      10
3       15      25
4       20      45
5       25      70
6       30      100
7       35      135
8       40      175
9       45      220
10      50      270
11      55      325
12      60      385
13      65      450
14      70      520
15      75      595
Edit: fixed total cost

The cost of initiation. This is the regular cost, the 20% discount for either doing an ordeal or initiating with a group, then the 40% discount for both doing an ordeal and initiating with a group. There is some controversy over whether "Initiatory ordeal: Base cost – 20% (round up)" and "Base cost – 40% (round up)" means =RoundUp(Base-40%) or =Base-RoundUp(40%). and so I present both. The () mark whether the roundup is around the whole thing, or just the percentage.
CODE
Grade  Base   Extra   Normal  (-20%)  -20(%)  (-40%)  -40(%)
1       10      3       13      11      10      8       7
2       10      6       16      13      12      10      9
3       10      9       19      16      15      12      11
4       10      12      22      18      17      14      13
5       10      15      25      20      20      15      15
6       10      18      28      23      22      17      16
7       10      21      31      25      24      19      18
8       10      24      34      28      27      21      20
9       10      27      37      30      29      23      22
10      10      30      40      32      32      24      24
11      10      33      43      35      34      26      25
12      10      36      46      37      36      28      27
13      10      39      49      40      39      30      29
14      10      42      52      42      41      32      31
15      10      45      55      44      44      33      33
Total                   510     414     402     312     300
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hobgoblin
post May 4 2010, 10:47 PM
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either i am reading the second table wrong, or your total is a bit off after magic 3.
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Muspellsheimr
post May 4 2010, 11:08 PM
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Table 2 Total is way the fuck off.

Table 3 -20% & -40% are off:
Group/Ordeal each reduce Initiation Karma Cost by 20% (round up). It is the reduction, & not the final value, that is rounded up.
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Karoline
post May 5 2010, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 4 2010, 07:08 PM) *
Table 2 Total is way the fuck off.

Big time.

QUOTE
Table 3 -20% & -40% are off:
Group/Ordeal each reduce Initiation Karma Cost by 20% (round up). It is the reduction, & not the final value, that is rounded up.


I've always done it the other way, and every GM I've ever been under has done it the other way. We could of course have been wrong...

Edit: Of course it helps in validating your argument to not lie act like something you say is what the book says.
QUOTE
Group initiation: Base cost – 20% (round up)*
Initiatory ordeal: Base cost – 20% (round up)*
* These may be combined for a net initiation cost of
Base cost – 40% (round up)

This is slightly ambiguous as to if it means to round the 20% or to round what the total cost is. I've always taken it to mean round the whole cost up.
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Muspellsheimr
post May 5 2010, 02:32 AM
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It was clarified at some point on the forums by the writers - you round the discount up, final cost down.

Also, if I remember correctly, the accompanying text (outside the table) supports this, but is still not entirely clear.
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Banaticus
post May 5 2010, 02:41 AM
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There we go, fixed table 2. I was adding the number to the left and the number above that, instead of the number above and the number to the left.

Base cost - 40% (round up) =RoundUp(Base cost - 40%) in my opinion, although I suppose as a player I'll be advocating =Base-RoundUp(40%)... however, the difference is virtually nothing. After 15 grades of initiation, whether it's a 20% or a 40% discount, it's only 12 karma points and nobody (except Dunkelzahn) will ever have 15 grades of initiation.
CODE
Grade  Base   Extra   Normal  (-20%)  -20(%)  (-40%)  -40(%)
1       10      3       13      11      10      8       7
2       10      6       16      13      12      10      9
3       10      9       19      16      15      12      11
4       10      12      22      18      17      14      13
5       10      15      25      20      20      15      15
6       10      18      28      23      22      17      16
7       10      21      31      25      24      19      18
8       10      24      34      28      27      21      20
9       10      27      37      30      29      23      22
10      10      30      40      32      32      24      24
11      10      33      43      35      34      26      25
12      10      36      46      37      36      28      27
13      10      39      49      40      39      30      29
14      10      42      52      42      41      32      31
15      10      45      55      44      44      33      33
                        510     414     402     312     300
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Draco18s
post May 5 2010, 02:44 AM
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At Base-RoundUp(20%) it does mean that you save 1 karma for initiating with a group with an ordeal (6 saved, cost 5 for joining a group) rather than breaking even.

So...
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Karoline
post May 5 2010, 02:46 AM
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QUOTE (Banaticus @ May 4 2010, 10:41 PM) *
After 15 grades of initiation, whether it's a 20% or a 40% discount, it's only 12 karma points and nobody (except Dunkelzahn) will ever have 15 grades of initiation.


I'm halfway through making a prime runner that has 10 grades, does that count? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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