cont'd: Infected as PC Options in SR, Vampire the Shadowing - a good idea? Options

[hermit]

Some of the fiction to the contrary, I see it as actually fairly rare that many of the classically non-sentient Infected, like the dzoo-noo-qua or the goblin, survive the transformation process without going feral.

I think so too. Maybe HMHVV 1 causes different kinds of strong social disorders, depending on what metahuman it affects? Since the distortion of the Bodies is very dissimilar, it's unreasonable to assume the distortion of the brain isn't.

[Daylen]

It has been a while since I have watched a vampire movie I'll admit, but I don't remember Dracula sparkling. In fact I seem to remember the directors making everything really dark looking and basically the opposite of sparkling. Am I missing something?

[Chrome Tiger]

It has been a while since I have watched a vampire movie I'll admit, but I don't remember Dracula sparkling. In fact I seem to remember the directors making everything really dark looking and basically the opposite of sparkling. Am I missing something?

There is a quote floating around the intarwebs about Twilight that I found quite humorous.. "Back in the day, vampires sucked blood, not c#ck."

[Rasumichin]

Either way, it's not good for you to be in the company of 500 goblins.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I think so too. Maybe HMHVV 1 causes different kinds of strong social disorders, depending on what metahuman it affects? Since the distortion of the Bodies is very dissimilar, it's unreasonable to assume the distortion of the brain isn't.

What about banshees, then?
Physically, they are changed about as much as vampires, but they are usually completely nuts.
Wendigo undergo the most drastic physical changes of all strain I patients, they also exhibit strong personality changes, but in a totally different way than any other infected.

Then there's gnawers, who appear to be the most reasonable infected around, in spite of being afflicted with the strain that usually causes the most extensive mental damage.

It's hard to establish a pattern here.

[hermit]

Physically, they are changed about as much as vampires, but they are usually completely nuts.
Wendigo undergo the most drastic physical changes of all strain I patients, they also exhibit strong personality changes, but in a totally different way than any other infected.

Well, brain and physical distortion needn't be congruent. The Banshee may largely suffer from brain alteration, and only very little would be visible on it's body. Also, I think the Dzoo-Noo-Qua have it worse in terms of distortion, but that is debatable and largely academic.

Then there's gnawers, who appear to be the most reasonable infected around, in spite of being afflicted with the strain that usually causes the most extensive mental damage.

It's hard to establish a pattern here.

Possibly because HMHVV interacts with the meta- and mago-genes? And all kinds of weird genetics ensue. Weird, magical genetics.

It has been a while since I have watched a vampire movie I'll admit, but I don't remember Dracula sparkling. In fact I seem to remember the directors making everything really dark looking and basically the opposite of sparkling. Am I missing something?

Yes (the one on the right). Or not. Depending on whether or not you can deal with Twilight.

There is a quote floating around the intarwebs about Twilight that I found quite humorous.. "Back in the day, vampires sucked blood, not c#ck."

I LOL'd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sengir]

But that's up to the player to decide, as the infection's impact on the victim's mental condition varies from case to case.

HUh, players deciding how they play a character? What weird kind of concept is this, I want The Big Book of If-Then-Else to tell me exactly how my characters are supposed to act in every situation (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


PS: As a friend of mine put it "Underworld - when vampires still were hetero"...

[Rasumichin]

Twilight vampires aren't gay. That would imply that they aren't asexual and antiseptic.
No, that's not family friendly enough.
The quote that best sums this up is still "vampires are the new ponies."

[hermit]

Actually, they're all straight and abstain until married. And before they, at best, dryhump (and beat up the girl while dryhumping, but that is okay because that only shows how much they love them). Who said they are gay? They're wimpy, angsty and brooding in a way that would make every German romanticist proud, they're dull and defanged, they are an immature little girl's dream - but they'Re not gay. Whoever says so hasn't read the books. They clearly lack any homoeroticism, as is evident in many V:tM games and novels.

"vampires are the new ponies."

Awesome.

[Chrome Tiger]

Twilight vampires aren't gay. That would imply that they aren't asexual and antiseptic.
No, that's not family friendly enough.
The quote that best sums this up is still "vampires are the new ponies."

This makes me want to photochop flowing manes and glittery logos onto them like My Little Ponies...

Is there a negative quality in SR for "Publicly Embarrassing Glitter Tattoos?"

[hermit]

This makes me want to photochop flowing manes and glittery logos onto them like My Little Ponies...

You mean, they don't glitter enough for you already? What would more glitter accomplish anyway? It's like painting a tree green, isn't it? A bunch of red heart stickers that glitter, or a care bear sigil im the stomach ...

Is there a negative quality in SR for "Publicly Embarrassing Glitter Tattoos?"

Distinctive Style?

[Kid Chameleon]

You guys know way too much about Twilight.

[hermit]

I am actually looking forward to the fourth movie, because in the middle, the books tone changes rather abruptly, what with the alien style birth of this mutant vampire alien child. Wonder whether they keep it in the movies. Would certainly ruin the PG rating.

Yes, I read all these books. I read all kinds of things. There's worse out there. Far worse.

[Sengir]

Twilight vampires aren't gay. That would imply that they aren't asexual and antiseptic.

Captain Obvious sez: Asexual vampires are not heterosexual either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Patrick Goodman]

More old-post-to-new cut-and-paste.

RC is quite clear that vampiric Infected are only granted basic rights in very few jurisdictions (probably those on the list of Infected-friendly in RW). Ghouls may have made some progress, but vampires are still considered little more than prey.

The listed countries include all major settings - UCAS, CAS, most of Europe, Hong Kong, California. Unless your campaign is set in Quebec or Russia, it is illegal for you to 'murder' an Infected - just like ghouls are now allowed to spread the iinfection freely. Whether the same applies if he kills you by feeding on you depends on local juristiction. It does NOT apply in Amazonia.

I see that the list of "Infected-friendly countries" has been posted already, so I don't know why exactly I'm replying to this other than to say...no. No, it doesn't. The UCAS and CAS especially are not particularly vampire-friendly. One thing I didn't have space to make clear is that, for the most part, when they say "Infected-friendly," I think they really mean "ghoul-friendly," and even that's only to a point for most of them. Perhaps someday I'll get more space to work on that some more.

The relevant passage is in (german) RC, pages 63 and 64, "Wer sind die Infizierten?". Please note that SINless technically do have human rights.

For the non-German speakers among us? I think I can roughly guess "Where are the Infected?" but I could be wrong, and I prefer human translators over automated ones.

Pretty sure I'm done over in the old thread. Will double-check, of course, but I'll be happy just be in this one and getting caught up....

[ClemulusRex]

Twilight vampires aren't gay. That would imply that they aren't asexual and antiseptic.
No, that's not family friendly enough.
The quote that best sums this up is still "vampires are the new ponies."

Ahem. They're the new unicorns:

http://www.bookofratings.com/creatures.html

Keep in mind that entry was written about ten years ago.

This strip (by the same fellow) was a bit more recent:

http://speakwithmonsters.badgods.com/comics/vampire

So never let it be said that I can't laugh at myself as someone who both enjoys VtM and wears black clothing while dancing to Bauhaus and Joy Division. However, it is precisely because of those interests/affiliations, that I am perhaps more disdainful and dismissive of Twilight than most people here ever could be, as I certainly do not swish my cape through the Paris sewers while weeping, nor do have a desire to..."sparkle." That said, I find some of the over-generalizations about the associations between goths, gays, emos (that sounds even more terrible when you pluralize it), VtM, and Twilight to be largely laughable, a bit immature, and perhaps even slightly bigoted as well.

For the most part I agree with the stance that if you want to play Vampire, play Vampire. But if you want to play a vampire in Shadowrun, things aren't going to be nearly as Romantic/romantic as VtM. In spite of that--and I've said this before--I'm surprised there isn't more crossover in the fanbase. They have differing themes, but both are dark in tone and have the "Urban Fantasy" thing going for them.

The citizenship for vamps and ghouls does seem like a stretch, but those are both sub-plots that have seeds that extend back YEARS, as I recall. I'm too tired to comment any further on that, though.

[hermit]

For the non-German speakers among us? I think I can roughly guess "Where are the Infected?" but I could be wrong, and I prefer human translators over automated ones.

Pretty sure I'm done over in the old thread. Will double-check, of course, but I'll be happy just be in this one and getting caught up....

"Who are the infected", p. 60 Runner's Companion. Didn't have the english pdf at hand when I posted, my apologies.

Relevant part: "After decades of denying them as citizens, or even metahumans, most members of the New European Economic Community, as well as the UCAS and the CAS, now recognize known Infected citizens as a special case of medically disadvantaged metahumans and dangerous citizens, and allow them to retain their citizenship,"

Also, this article calls them "post-metahuman", which is the best newspeak for "undead" I have heared, ever.

[Lansdren]

There is some commentry in RC I think which sates that some infected (mostly Ghouls) can apply for criminal sins, which give some rights but require 24/7 monitering.

Two situations to ponder

1)
A man is stopped by the cops in a bag he has a ghoul head, man says "damm animal attacked me I'm taking the head in for the bounty" cops scan it and say "fair nough chummer" and drive off

2)
A man is stopped by the cops in a bag he has a ghoul head, man says "damm animal attacked me I'm taking the head in for the bounty" cops scan it and say "thats the head of Mr Iyma of 32nd street, Hands where I can see them" and takes him away

I can see some of the less animal infected going down that route especially if they were good little corp children and workers before they were infected. To me part of the whole setting is people trying to find their place in the world. To some its the hive (not bug) kind of thing with a corp job living in corp housing that kind of stuff, others its the barrens and living one day to the next. What I'm getting at is if you were infected while it changes alot about you your primary instict will still stay the same in some respects a corp drone is still a corp drone.

[Rasumichin]

I can see some of the less animal infected going down that route especially if they were good little corp children and workers before they were infected. To me part of the whole setting is people trying to find their place in the world. To some its the hive (not bug) kind of thing with a corp job living in corp housing that kind of stuff, others its the barrens and living one day to the next. What I'm getting at is if you were infected while it changes alot about you your primary instict will still stay the same in some respects a corp drone is still a corp drone.

Brings to mind what happened to the Kriegers (the researcher couple that discovered Strain III and after which Krieger's syndrome is named).
Both got infected during their research and turned into ghouls. What did they do? Continued researching, looking for a cure.

Awesome.

It's probably the only witty thing Markus Kafka (for the Americans among us : not related to Franz) has ever said voluntarily.

This makes me want to photochop flowing manes and glittery logos onto them like My Little Ponies...

Is there a negative quality in SR for "Publicly Embarrassing Glitter Tattoos?"

If you want vampires in SR that actually sparkle and make all prebubescent girls blush with excitement, SURGE them and pick the Glamour quality.
I'll stat out a sparkledog shapeshifter for that group.

Captain Obvious sez: Asexual vampires are not heterosexual either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They are, if they are asexual in the "true love waits" sense. If you want to sell sex to pre-teens, you have to lace it with a thick layer of good, old-fashioned family values.

Ahem. They're the new unicorns:

http://www.bookofratings.com/creatures.html

Keep in mind that entry was written about ten years ago.

Prophetic. I am impressed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[hermit]

If you want vampires in SR that actually sparkle and make all prebubescent girls blush with excitement, SURGE them and pick the Glamour quality.
I'll stat out a sparkledog shapeshifter for that group.

Well, the werewolf dude actually doesn't really sparkle much; and is a fairly ordinary physad Native American shapeshifter. He's one of the less horrible characters, and the guy who really gets fucked over. Until book 4, where he is served a healthy dose of very creepy paedophilia (Twilight werewolves have something of a bonding to "the one" they are meant to be with, which, upon meeting, hits them like the sledgehammer of ultimate stalking type revelation and they are taken with them forever or until properly killed. Turns out wolfboy's "the one" is a newborn mutant baby. ICK.).

They are, if they are asexual in the "true love waits" sense. If you want to sell sex to pre-teens, you have to lace it with a thick layer of good, old-fashioned family values.

And if he hits you, it only shows how much he loves you!

It's probably the only witty thing Markus Kafka (for the Americans among us : not related to Franz) has ever said voluntarily.

O_O That guy still exists?! Is he ... post-metahuman?

[Rasumichin]

Well, the werewolf dude actually doesn't really sparkle much; and is a fairly ordinary physad Native American shapeshifter. He's one of the less horrible characters, and the guy who really gets fucked over. Until book 4, where he is served a healthy dose of very creepy paedophilia (Twilight werewolves have something of a bonding to "the one" they are meant to be with, which, upon meeting, hits them like the sledgehammer of ultimate stalking type revelation and they are taken with them forever or until properly killed. Turns out wolfboy's "the one" is a newborn mutant baby. ICK.).

Be glad that you didn't get the sparkledog reference. Better for your sanity.

O_O That guy still exists?! Is he ... post-metahuman?

I think he's one of those non-biological lifeforms or something like that.

[hermit]

Be glad that you didn't get the sparkledog reference. Better for your sanity.

Well, *now* I know. Fairly amusing, in a train wreck sort of way. Yes, this warrants the glamour power. Totally. Like whoa.

I think he's one of those non-biological lifeforms or something like that.

This doesn't change my mind about AI and post-metahuman rights at all!

[Sengir]

Also, this article calls them "post-metahuman", which is the best newspeak for "undead" I have heared, ever.

They.
are.
not.
undead.

[Patrick Goodman]

More old-post-to-new cut-and-paste. And the last one, mostly so it'll be in this new thread and I can address it more fully later, if needed. This makes me happy.

Yep, this passage says that Infected can apply for a criminal SIN in the CAS, NEC and UCAS, but just a page earlier it also says:
It is telling that only 35 nations around the world afford equal rights and citizenry to HMHVV infected, and those only to some.

So I guess "debatable" is the correct word. "Poor/missing QA" (as the authors themselves have said) would be another good one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Criminal SINs, while available to many Infected, don't really amount to equal rights and citizenship. The two statements above aren't necessarily, in and of themselves, contradictory. Something I think needs to be addressed, yes, but not altogether contradictory.

Since there are standing bounties on all Infected (ghouls included) I guess that does not apply to Infected and possibly non-homo sapients. That wouldn't make sense? Well, we are talking about immigrations laws.

And the fact that bounties are still on the books, while the Infected can apply for criminal SINs, is making a lot of people crazy. I see something coming to a head, but I'm not sure what form that's going to take or when it's going to happen.

[hermit]

Criminal SINs, while available to many Infected, don't really amount to equal rights and citizenship.

I disagree about the citizenship. You're a covict, sure, and you have limited rights, but you are a citizen. Thirdclass citizenship still is citizenship. And that means it would, for instance, be illegal to shoot you dead if you cross the street unless you have a sound reason and/or a law enforcement badge.

And the fact that bounties are still on the books, while the Infected can apply for criminal SINs, is making a lot of people crazy. I see something coming to a head, but I'm not sure what form that's going to take or when it's going to happen.

I would suppose the bounties are only on unregistered Infected, as an enticement to register, or something. Which, of course, won't gain you anything as a society unless you lock the infected up in some sort of reservation, but there you go.

[Rasumichin]

I would suppose the bounties are only on unregistered Infected, as an enticement to register, or something.

I thought something similar at first. Bounties for feral, nonregistered infected, limited citizenship for those who can actually fill out the forms and agree to have a monitoring advice attached to them or something like that.
I read up again on that today and found out i was wrong.

Running Wild claims that the bounties are still on the books, but about to fall in the UCAS (and not enforced anymore as well).
Same for the CAS, but they are lagging behind a bit.

It's kinda confusing if you hide the explanation somewhere in the running text, while putting the bounties in a sidebar, but it's actually pretty clear what's up with them once you find the corresponding passage.

Note that these laws are not passed yet. In fact, they could still be voted down, especially in the case of the CAS.