OS X/Unix Developers, Can we band together? Options

[Connor]

It seems like there are quite a few of us floating around on these boards and I imagine if we get organized we might even be able to code or port some software so that we can have some nice GM and Player tools to use natively.

This is basically just a roll call kind of a thread to start with. Anyone out there interested in organizing something?

I imagine something with the goal of either coding in or porting to Cocoa or Java depending on the group we get together and the needs of said group. No need to leave the Linux/FreeBSD/Unix guys who haven't come across to OS X yet out in the cold.

Now, I'm going to wander off to class shortly...

[Fahr]

Unix programmer here, but mostly write in ansi C... but I can do other stuff too... (java and xml/xlst)

-Mike R

[Adam]

I don't have any coding experience under OSX [nor any C experience, period], but I'd absolutely love to get some Shadowrun apps working under OSX.

[Connor]

Sorry I've been out of action so long. I haven't really gotten any programming experience in OS X yet, but I've been wanting an excuse to get some.

Maybe a few of us can get together in chat and see if we can get something put together... As long as I know in advance I can probably clear my schedule to be available so some of you with more stuff going on can post when would be a good time...

[Connor]

Another thing I was wondering is if someone had a list of open source, or source code available programs for us to work from on this project? Even if they're in another language seeing what the logic used and other such things would be nice...

I think such a list will work as a good starting point and allow us to see what we need to do to get stuff up and running.

[gknoy]

I wouldn't say I'm specifically a UNIX programmer, but I'm closer to that than a Windows programmer. ;) My experience is almost all Java (many platforms possible, in theory) and Perl; Dunno if that'd be any help. =)

No OSX here, but I do have a linux box (well, two, if I ever get my main machine finished :)).

- Gabriel

[Connor]

Well, unix/linux programmers are more than welcome to jump aboard. Preferably I'd like to get something together with a nice backend that was fairly platform agnostic and then be able to plug it into a GUI framework pretty easily. At least, that's what I'd like to see.

[gknoy]

Platform-agnostic sounds fun ... *grin*

I'd say that the biggest reason I don't consider myself a unix developer is that the whole configure/build script thing (that nearly everything and it's brother is distributed with) is like deep, dark voodoo to me. =/ I know there's an FM somehere that I can RT, but I haven't found it yet. =( Can anyone recommend any good reading materials on this subject?

[Connor]

I have to say, make/build stuff is deep dark voodoo to me as well. I've never worked on a unix program large enough to require much of a Makefile. Although, I imagine there's an O'Reilly book or three that unlock the voodoo. I may have to hunt around for one myself.

[Fahr]

I am pretty good at Makefiles... they're not hard, just stupid, like don't ever use spaces to move something, use a tab... and dumb rules like that.

-Mike R.

[nonhuman]

Hi, I actually just joined this forum hoping someone would be able to point me to an OS X/Unix Character Generator. But, since it appears that other people are also looking for one, I'll point out that I am a developer, and I am interested in working on such a project. I actually started one for OS X about a year ago, but I got side-tracked by school and since have lost the work that I did then. I don't have much in the way of free time right now, but in about three weeks I'll have loads of it and would definitely not be averse to putting some of it towards working on another such project.

[Connor]

Alright, I've been playing around a little more seriously with the OS X developer tools and I have to say it's rather nifty. I'll probably end up doing something geared towards OS X right now, although most of the low-level code that will do all the work will probably be rather portable C code. This is unless of course someone else jumps on board early on.

But again, most of the code will probably end up being rather portable and someone should be able to take the functions and such that are performing all or most of the real work and take them anywhere.

At the moment I'm in the middle of moving to a new place, but once I get settled in this weekend I may find some quality time during Spring Break to get something done on this.

Also, the one thing I think I could use help with more than anything is flow charting or program layout. I don't have a huge amount of experience with it, but if someone wants to lend a hand doing the high level work it will probably make my job easier with regard to the actual coding of the application.

If you want to lend a hand PM me here or you can find me on AIM under the screen name Llwybyr or you can email me at connor@dicebag.com.

[Firewall]

I am a webcoder, so my experience is fairly platform-independent. Java apps/applets, perl, php, etc.

I can try. You want a web-interface though, I can certainly do that...

[Connor]

Odd, I thought I posted someting earlier today with an update. Whether the post disappeared or I just forgot about it here's what I wanted to let everyone know who's interested.

In playing around with the Mac OS X development environment and trying to get comfortable enough with Cocoa and Objective-C I've discovered that my coding skills are quite rusty and in fact may be lacking quite a bit.

To remedy this, I've signed up with http://safari.oreilly.com in the hopes that access to the wealth of information in the books available that way will quickly bring me up to speed with things.

Also, I'm pretty much going to be concentrating on working with Cocoa/Obj-C so for the time being I'm not really going to be worrying about cross-platform development. And I see that if it ever gets to the point where porting to other systems happens it will probably need to be done under the OpenStep framework...

Anyways, that's getting a little far afield. Bascially what I'm trying to get at is that unless some people step forward fairly early on the focus is definately going to be OS X only for the forseeable future. At least until something mostly working is out and about.

--

Now, with regards to the program itself.

I figure it will eventually be a 'do everything' type program. One has to have a nigh-impossible goal as I see it. In the meantime however my first step is going to be to create a basic character tracking program, which will hopefully interoperate with the XML stuff that's being done in regard to NSRCG development.

Anyways, that's where things stand and I'll keep adding updates as the project progresses. Hopefully I'll have something to share in the near future.

[Fahr]

I have a redhat 9 box, so I'll see if those tools run there too, and if they do I can work on keeping it a bit cross platform.

-Mike R.

[Connor]

I know there are a few things in the Cocoa framework that don't translate to OpenStep, but 95%+ does as far as I'm aware. There are some recent things that Apple has added that I guess the guys doing the OpenStep stuff haven't caught up with yet.

As a little history lesson:
The Cocoa Framework is a direct decendent of NextStep, Steve Jobs computer company before he went back to Apple. Apple bought NextStep to bring Steve back and they used the NextStep stuff to create OS X. They added in the Carbon support for pre-OS X compatibility and what not, which is supposedly what took so long with it... Anyways, since Cocoa is basically NextStep (all of the functions or what have you still begin with NS even...) that makes things with regard to OpenStep rather portable. Although I don't have any first hand knowledge of it yet... This is just what I picked up from what I've read.

Hopefully if we implement any OS X only stuff we can easily get it running on OpenStep with some minor changes... Of course, in reality it probably won't be that easy...heh.

[tete]

I started working on a java applet tool last week, Right now all it does is store you character in a very basic html file, I am currently working on having it check dependancies, As soon as thats done I plan on releasing it under the GPL, however I still play a modified 2nd edition and my plans are to integrate it more as a gm tool for combat, matrix, and astral tracking. I hope to have a resonable character storage device before the end of april.

[Connor]

Yes, well, it's update time.

So, I have of course had less time to put towards this than I was hoping, but things are progressing. I've been reading stuff and soaking in plenty of info and it's always nice to learn new things.

First off, having very little experience with any OO programing (I've really only ever done basic C stuff and some various scripting languages and PHP) it's become very apparent that I'm going to want to take some time to become familiar with it a bit more.

Secondly, Objective-C seems to be all around a Good Thing ™. Once I've gotten more of a grasp of the whole OO methodology and what not things should fall into place much more quickly.

Third, Cocoa is very slick. I can't wait to really get my hands dirty with it. Also, a note with regards to cross-platform compatibility. I've learned a bit more about the whole Cocoa/OpenStep/GNUStep relationship and it looks like it's going to be possible to keep things at least mostly cross-platform compatible. There's even a chance it could compile under Windows using cygwin and gnustep...heh

The biggest obstacle to cross-platform compatibility will be with using the newest additions to the Cocoa framework, which haven't been implemented by the gnustep folks yet. Some of these things I can see wanting to use, such as sheets (the dialog boxes that are part of the window) and drawers.

Of course, if anyone out there wants to lend a hand towards the GUI development, it can be done with little to no coding experience, at least if you have access to the Apple dev tools...


Anyways, it boils down to this basically. I'm pressing ahead with the project in some fashion right now, but I've decided if I'm going to get this off the ground I want to do it at least mostly right. So instead of just throwing some barely working code together and calling it a day I want to at least get a grasp of the unfamiliar programming concepts first.

In the next week or so I'll probably start laying out the groundwork for the program. So if anyone wants to speak up about what kind of direction they'd like to see things go in now is a great time to let me know.

[Connor]

Mostly just a bump post here, since I don't want this thread to fall off after 30 days like I think it will if I let it sit around much longer.

I also wanted to say that I'm still trudging ahead with things. I've been clearing my schedule and such to make some time to devote to this on a regular basis, so hopefully I can get things moving before too long.

For those of you that have expressed interest, I'd love to at least hear a list of features or things you'd like to see done with it at some point. I sort of have things coming together in my design, but things will only improve with more input on stuff.

[Connor]

A SourceForge project has been set up. Anyone interested in keeping up on the development should look there for the short term.

Also, anyone wanting to get involved with ideas on how things should be done please join up one of the mailing lists set up through SourceForge.

We hope to have some program mock ups for people to look at and critique soon.

Again, everyone who has contacted me thank you for your interest. It looks like this project is going the pushing ahead for the time being.

Also, I would like to say if you are a Linux/FreeBSD/Unix user and would like to help keep the program GNUStep compatible please get in touch with me. The sooner we start this the better. You don't need to be intimately familiar with GNUStep, just have a willingness to learn!

We definately want your 2 :nuyen: worth of input, no matter how trivial.