How much capacity does a helmet have?, How much stuff can you stuff in? Options

[Banaticus]

"Helmets come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, but their common purpose is to protect the head from trauma. Helmets are often tricked out with accessories such as trode nets and visual aids." They have B/I armor of +1/+2, availability of 2 and cost 100¥. So, how much capacity do they have, how do you tell how much extra stuff you can jam into a helmet?

[svenftw]

It's hard to say, there is no capacity listed for them and there doesn't seem to be any sort of standard for the capacity a regular "helmet" has. The ones that do have capacities range from 3-6, I would give a regular helmet 5 or 6 to reflect higher levels of modular capabilities for helmets designed for general use.

[DireRadiant]

Arsenal p. 44
"Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number
of modifi cation rating points equal to 6 or the highest number
of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever
is higher."

Optional Rule

[Yerameyahu]

I assumed the only capacity helmets were the crazy mil-sec ones, which I believe are listed. Hmm.

Isn't that armor mods (thermal damping, chem-seal, etc.), though? Is it the same for commlinks and trodes, etc.? (Honestly, I'd say trodes take 0 space, bad example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Sengir]

Isn't that armor mods (thermal damping, chem-seal, etc.), though?

Yup, Arsenal distinguishes between normal armour with space for modifications (chemical protection and the like) and armour suits with capacity like cyberlimbs (which for the listed suits is lower than 1.5 * armour). If you want to houserule capacity for normal ballictic vests and helmets, I suggest using the values for the Urban Explorer suit as a guideline.

[svenftw]

Arsenal p. 44
"Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number
of modifi cation rating points equal to 6 or the highest number
of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever
is higher."

Optional Rule

That's for armor modifications, but not armor enhancements. It gets a little convoluted because armor modifications take up both the 'capacity' listed in this rule AND the capacity listed in the table, and the numbers are different. For example, Rating 6 Nonconductivity would take up 6 points of modification rating and 3 points of capacity.

Other helmets besides the military versions have listed capacities - basically anything that was put out in Arsenal does. Some of it doesn't make much sense, like the motorcycle helmet having 6 capacity while the SWAT helmet has 4.

[HappyDaze]

I don't think anything really says, but there is also no limit to what you can wear with the helmet. You can put your trode net under the helmet and then wear your goggles, headphones, and respirator along with it. A commlink has been described before as being small enough to integrate into clothing, so even if the helmet doesn't specifically allow for it, you shouldn't have any trouble tacking one on as an oversized lapel pin for your armor.

[Stahlseele]

One head worth of stuff.

[Achsin]

Similar to the maximum armor modifications rule ... For the purposes of this rule, the full body armor described
on p. 316, SR4, has a Capacity of 8; its accompanying helmet has a Capacity of 7. The Urban Explorer Jumpsuit has a Capacity of
6; its helmet has a capacity of 5.
-Arsenal p44

That's all I can find. some arbitrary numbers in an optional rule.

[Sengir]

Why optional?

[Caadium]

"Helmets come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, but their common purpose is to protect the head from trauma. Helmets are often tricked out with accessories such as trode nets and visual aids." They have B/I armor of +1/+2, availability of 2 and cost 100¥. So, how much capacity do they have, how do you tell how much extra stuff you can jam into a helmet?

Arsenal p. 44
"Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number
of modifi cation rating points equal to 6 or the highest number
of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever
is higher."

Optional Rule

Unless it stated otherwise in the description I would apply that rule, this means a base helmet would have capacity of 6. I don't think that a base helmet would have space for extra mods by default; its the base model.

[Tyro]

Biker helmet (+1/+2) is best to start with short of Restricted Gear. It comes with a bunch of goodies which (by RAW) take up no space, leaving you with the full 6 Capacity to play around with ^_^

[Udoshi]

Both Max-Armor-Mod rules in Arsenal - both Armor Suit Capacity and Maximum Armor Modifications, which are two ways of limiting whatever can be throwin in them.

Without those rules, armor may simply have whatever-the-fuck thrown on top if it.

Capacity -would- have been the way to go, but none of the mods/gear was designed with that in mind, and some of that stuff is just way too huge.
I am, personally, a fan of the Max Armor Mods rule(Takes -rating points- = 6, or 1.5x highest armor, with unrated armor mods taking up 1 point.). Its the most simple system, uses the 'it gets this many slots, unless it has more' system that drones and guns do, and reduces bookkeeping by not needing to constantly look up capacities.

That being said, arsenal sheds some light on this stuff: (The Capacity is meant to work with the Capacity armor rule)

Milgrade powersuit helmets have a capacity of 5, and already come with an encrypted commlink, camera(flare comp, smartlink, image link)
Red samurai powersuit helmets have the same built in goodies, and a capacity of 4.
Bike racing armor helmets has surround sound, image link and flare compensation.
SWAT armor has a gas mask, image link, low light vision, flare comp, smartlink, and a capacity of 4. Also fire resistance 4.
Riot control armor has fireresistance 2, wifi, and an image link, with a capacity of 6.
Firefighter's bunker gear has wifi, thermographic vision, low light, flare comp, gas mask, fire resistance 6, chemical protection 4, an RFID tag, and a gask mask. It has capacity 3.
And that's just standard arsenal stuff. Helmets are pretty badass if you actually take a look at what they have.
If you throw in the Optional capacity Rule
Urban Explorer Helmet has 5, and a music player
Full Body Armor Helmet 7. Comes with a wi-fi link, and can take any vision enhancements. Minor Nitpick: The wording is similar to that of a scope, which I think lets you load up on anything you can cram in there, as it was made before any modification rules.

That should give you some idea of the kinds of things you're able to cram into a helmet.

[Yerameyahu]

Hmm. This sounds pretty messy, with the difference betweens mods and gear, and the lack of really definitive rules. :/ I guess just try not to cheat too hard? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Achsin]

Why optional?

These rules are all optional

[Udoshi]

Hmm. This sounds pretty messy, with the difference betweens mods and gear, and the lack of really definitive rules. :/ I guess just try not to cheat too hard? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Pretty much. Armor is defnitely one thing that could have been done better.

However. SR4's system of doing things is the easiest on the player - as in, no limits slap anything on - is the best, as long as a player is semi-reasonable about it, and doesn't go nuts with it.

If you feel like you're being a cheesy schmuck with armor mods ..... then just stop where you're comfortable.

[Teulisch]

i had not read up on those other helmets in arsenal before, that was educational.

as far as helmet mods go, its a good place to install a high-rating respirator, a commlink, and a variety of sensors. but by the looks of it, also a good place to put more armor mods as they would simply continue to stack. r6 of the same mod in each the armor, the helmet, and the FFBA would offer up to +18 against that one thing. its a bit non-logical, but it would work by the RAW.

[Yerameyahu]

Do they stack? :/ I always assumed it was best-only, and the helmet *had* to be as good as the rest. Stupid logic getting in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Do they stack? :/ I always assumed it was best-only, and the helmet *had* to be as good as the rest. Stupid logic getting in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I would not let them stack... but that is just me...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed.

[Tyro]

I believe they explicitly stack, but I'm too lazy to look it up atm. Does anyone have a good, balanced fix for using advanced armor rules with armor released without those rules in mind?

[Yerameyahu]

I don't believe so.

SR4A, p327:
"Shields may be upgraded with the chemical protection, fire resistance, and nonconductivity armor modifications. When combining armor and a shield, only one of them provides the modification bonus (wearer’s choice)."

The fact that helmets aren't mentioned implies that they can't even have these mods, I feel. This is because, "Helmets and shields do not count as separate pieces of armor; instead, they modify the rating of worn armor by their rating (Armor and Encumbrance, p. 161)." It seems like helmets can have gadgets, not mods, and that shields' mods do not stack. Examples in the books support this conclusion.