CGL Speculation #8, Put on your asbestos underwear Options

[Method]

Updated Official Announcements thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dread Moores]

That's also great news to hear, for Sandstorm and Posthuman.

[Caadium]

Sandstorm Press Releases

Thanks!

[otakusensei]

Man, I wish I worked in a dodgeball friendly industry...

[Adam]

There were a couple years when we played games outside the White Wolf party, at Gen Con. Sadly for that, the White Wolf party moved to a different location downtown where it wouldn't be practical to play in the street.

If only there was a nearby basketball court or something ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Anyone in the Chicago area, the game is in the Fifth Third Bank parking lot, near the Milwaukee/Division intersection, every Thursday night, starting around 11PMish.

You might be advised to not park your car nearby, if you're driving in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RunnerPaul]

Man, I wish I worked in a dodgeball friendly industry...

Screw dodgeball. 4-Square, especially on the collegiate level or higher, is the true sport of choice.

[augmentin]

I've come to like 4e a lot more recently as a rules system, but the world building and metaplot leave a lot to be desired.

I love Ghostwalker. I love technomancers (even if I think they're a tad overpowered as PCs).

The only problem with the way Tir Tairnegire's been handled in 4e is that it's all off-screen. 2 decades of story was resolved with a single line in the "How It Came to Pass" section of the new BBB, which pisses me off. Want to close it off and banish IEs to the far, far background? Cool. Just don't take a story I've been following since I was thirteen fucking years old with a lot of investment in all the characters, then just say "Oh, the rebels that may or may not have been lead by Harlequin won and took over and now the country's in economic collapse now let's move on to how awesome all the new stuff we wrote about Evo and Horizon is."

It's indicative of what I don't like about how 4e's metaplot has been handled -- focused exclusively on down-and-dirty street-level play and ignoring those of us who like the IEs and dragons and Deus turning the Archology into a horror show that would may the dude from Saw gag and Dunkelzahn's will and all that other stuff. I'm missing that in 4e and I want it back.

IMO, the last good book for Shadowrun I've read was Dragons of the Sixth World. That's not saying much though because the only competition is Emergence. Every other book has been core rulebook expansions (Street Magic, Augmentation, etc) or location books ("Ooh, let's do 2500 words on this place that had an entire sourcebook in 1st/2nd ed and spend the entire thing recapping what was said in there!") The potential stall in production due to the loss of the freelancers and the shady business practices that might cost the company the license pisses me off because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books solely to attempt to make a buck.

Been out of town, but you know, this post is awesome. QFT.

(Oh yeah, and we need more NAN action, too.)

[Banaticus]

because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books

Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.

[Demonseed Elite]

Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.

I think you must have misunderstood whatever they were saying.

[otakusensei]

Well fuck.

So is this the extension through GenCon or the whole next three years?

[LurkerOutThere]

Even if I see this as good news I presume the current extension is likely through the con season. It is possible it's for another year and Randal doesn't want to come out and say so until the ink is dry. Even so I'd say this increases the chances they'll keep the license.

[Larsine]

I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition.

Jason said so i the last chat. I asked when the "enhanced" versions (think SR4 -> SR4A) of the core rule books was comming out, and Jason said it was to late in the production cycle to re-publish them as "enhanced" versions.

Lars

[emouse]

The 'imminent' deal is for the long term extension. The press release already states they're working on an operational extension which was part of their original license, and probably would have been in effect until Topps made a decision on the new licensee.

That's my understanding, anyhow.

It sounds like a done deal, but there's always the left field or chicken counting contingencies.

[lehesu]

Well, jeez. They haven't mentioned for how long so that clearly means CGL is doomed and will never succeed ever.

[Lucyfersam]

Well fuck.

So is this the extension through GenCon or the whole next three years?

My guess is that is either through GenCon or a year at most, if it was a full 3 year renewal I expect they would have phrased it as such rather than using the term extension.

However, either way I agree that this makes it much more likely for them to keep the license beyond this extension as long as they show they have gotten their shit together during the extension period.

Lucy

[LurkerOutThere]

On second read it looks like an Extension as laid out in the contract, someone said three years so that's a possibility. Either way good news as far as I'm concerned. Que up the teeth gnashing either way, promises of piracy, promises of boycott etc.

[emouse]

By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.

[Jaid]

Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.

Jason said so i the last chat. I asked when the "enhanced" versions (think SR4 -> SR4A) of the core rule books was comming out, and Jason said it was to late in the production cycle to re-publish them as "enhanced" versions.

Lars

at a guess, what he probably meant was "not enough people are going to repurchase the other books to make it financially viable" (and given their current financial situation, i expect they wouldn't want to do much of anything unless they're really confident it will turn a profit).

i mean, it's not like it's that much later than SR4A... the difference is that pretty much everyone with an interest in the game will pick up the main book, whereas maybe half, if that, would pick up the added books i'd say.

[Caduceus]

I've come to like 4e a lot more recently as a rules system, but the world building and metaplot leave a lot to be desired.

I love Ghostwalker. I love technomancers (even if I think they're a tad overpowered as PCs).

The only problem with the way Tir Tairnegire's been handled in 4e is that it's all off-screen. 2 decades of story was resolved with a single line in the "How It Came to Pass" section of the new BBB, which pisses me off. Want to close it off and banish IEs to the far, far background? Cool. Just don't take a story I've been following since I was thirteen fucking years old with a lot of investment in all the characters, then just say "Oh, the rebels that may or may not have been lead by Harlequin won and took over and now the country's in economic collapse now let's move on to how awesome all the new stuff we wrote about Evo and Horizon is."

It's indicative of what I don't like about how 4e's metaplot has been handled -- focused exclusively on down-and-dirty street-level play and ignoring those of us who like the IEs and dragons and Deus turning the Archology into a horror show that would may the dude from Saw gag and Dunkelzahn's will and all that other stuff. I'm missing that in 4e and I want it back.

IMO, the last good book for Shadowrun I've read was Dragons of the Sixth World. That's not saying much though because the only competition is Emergence. Every other book has been core rulebook expansions (Street Magic, Augmentation, etc) or location books ("Ooh, let's do 2500 words on this place that had an entire sourcebook in 1st/2nd ed and spend the entire thing recapping what was said in there!") The potential stall in production due to the loss of the freelancers and the shady business practices that might cost the company the license pisses me off because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books solely to attempt to make a buck.

Yeah, nothing like dragging around 20 years of esoteric plot and overpowered Mary-Sue type characters to make it easy for new players to pick up your game and get into it.

You've also clearly not checked out Dawn of the Artifacts, since their backplot is entirely stemming from Dunklezahn's will and various immortal elves. I won't say more to avoid spoilers, but everything you're "missing in 4e" is is pretty apparent in the first two DotAs. Maybe not coming right out and hitting you in the face with it, but there's two more planned and then a follow up book , so I think you'll be okay.

[Kid Chameleon]

By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.

We'd like to think so. Of course, these things don't happen in an instant. It takes a long time to rebuild a tarnished reputation.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

at a guess, what he probably meant was "not enough people are going to repurchase the other books to make it financially viable" (and given their current financial situation, i expect they wouldn't want to do much of anything unless they're really confident it will turn a profit).

Of course, the core rule books stagnating and never catching up to the current main rule book is a sad state of affairs.

i mean, it's not like it's that much later than SR4A... the difference is that pretty much everyone with an interest in the game will pick up the main book, whereas maybe half, if that, would pick up the added books i'd say.

Actually, putting out shiny, updated crunch books might be the best selling thing short of SR5.

On the other had, if it's "too late in the production cycle" for the former, it says something about the latter.

[BlueMax]

You've also clearly not checked out Dawn of the Artifacts, since their backplot is entirely stemming from Dunklezahn's will and various immortal elves. I won't say more to avoid spoilers, but everything you're "missing in 4e" is is pretty apparent in the first two DotAs. Maybe not coming right out and hitting you in the face with it, but there's two more planned and then a follow up book , so I think you'll be okay.

In his defense, your pointing out one relatively new book from SR4. SR4 has been out years and years.

A concise well written history can bring in new players. It happens all the time for Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun and even Battletech (speaking of over powered characters, SunTzu "fiat" Liao). You don't need to piss on the past to have a future.

Or at least, I don't think you do... I may be wrong.

BlueMax
/may have no future.

[urgru]

A Topps official saying that they're "supportive" and expect IMR to regain its financial footing pretty much knifes the involuntary bankruptcy petition. It will be interesting to see whether Wildfire et. all attempt to withdraw it voluntarily or go through with the hearing on Friday.

[darthmord]

By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.

It's not uncommon in contracting to have an initial term coupled with additional option years.

For instance, the contract I'm working on was for 2 years as the initial term with 6 option years. Since contracting and licensing have a significant amount in common, I would not be surprised to see an extension come up. That also neatly explains why there has been little word regarding the license.

[Method]

urgru: where did you hear that Topps said that? Did I miss something? Is there an official statement or is this hearsay?