Shapeshifters and Aging - Dumpshock Forums

Shapeshifters and Aging, "Dog years"?

k1tsune View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 07:51 PM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 5,740	Here's my question. I asked it before, but I don't think I got a response. How do shapeshifters age? Aren't they normally born animals and such? Do they have shorter lifespans than humans? The same, despite their other forms? Do they age the same as their animal counterparts? Or do they, as some "werewolves" and such, live longer than humans? Just curious.

Shev View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 08:19 PM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949	I don't recall any rules on that in the SRComp. I would say that they age seven times faster in their wolf form than they do in human form. So, if they spent a year straight as a wolf, then shifted into human they would appear to be seven years older, not just a year. Not sure if they would hit a prime age and stall (making them long lived), or age normally and die (making them short-lived). Personally, I would guess that they live longer than humans, so I'd go with the "age fast when in wolf form" deal until they hit the appearance of being about 30, then leaving it there for a while.

k1tsune

Feb 21 2004, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE (Shev)

I don't recall any rules on that in the SRComp. I would say that they age seven times faster in their wolf form than they do in human form. So, if they spent a year straight as a wolf, then shifted into human they would appear to be seven years older, not just a year.

Not sure if they would hit a prime age and stall (making them long lived), or age normally and die (making them short-lived). Personally, I would guess that they live longer than humans, so I'd go with the "age fast when in wolf form" deal until they hit the appearance of being about 30, then leaving it there for a while.

So you're saying they wouldn't age at all in human form? I don't get how aging faster in wolf form + normal in human form= live longer than humans.

Shockwave_IIc View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 09:03 PM Post #4
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499	Thats screwy, granted i can't think of a better answer, but still. also don't (to quote a kit kat cubes advert) that faster animals (like cheetas and others) live to the age of like 8?

BitBasher View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 09:16 PM Post #5
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Cheetahs have a lifespan of 10-12 years in the wild, and up to 17 in captivity.

Crimson Jack View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 09:49 PM Post #6
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712	Wouldn't you divide the smaller number into the larger life span to see what the ratio is? Seems like a lot of work though, if you ask me. Do any shadowrunners die of old age? Any? heh.

Raptor1033 View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 09:55 PM Post #7
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 3-April 03 Member No.: 4,370	I just like the idea of being so different than either species that they live longer than either. I don't know why, I just like the idea of a 130 year old shapeshifter dog looking grizzled as all hell.

Crimson Jack View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 09:59 PM Post #8
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712	I can see that. Got a bit of matted Cujo fur on him does he? Sounds cool. I wouldn't really care if it were my game. Elves get to live a long time. Shapeshifters should be able to as well. Why not?

BitBasher

Feb 21 2004, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE

Elves get to live a long time. Shapeshifters should be able to as well. Why not?

I havea question that's just as good. Why? What logic connects the lifespan of elves to the lifespan of shapeshifters. As far as I can tell they have not a single thing to do with one another.

Herald of Verjig...

Feb 21 2004, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE (BitBasher)

Why? What logic connects the lifespan of elves to the lifespan of shapeshifters.

Assuming there is truth to the saying, "you are what you eat"...

Crimson Jack

Feb 21 2004, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE (BitBasher @ Feb 21 2004, 10:09 PM)

What logic connects the lifespan of elves to the lifespan of shapeshifters. As far as I can tell they have not a single thing to do with one another.

The reason I brought up elves is because they have an insanely long life span. The reason I said 'why not?' was because I feel that if there are nigh-immortal creatures running around on the planet, is it too crazy to think that shapeshifters (with their regenerative *snikt snikt* powers) can live somewhat longer-than-normal lives? I don't think so, but that's just IMHO. So, I guess that would be my logic. Not quoting game law, just my thoughts.

It's kind of a moot point though really. No one wants to play the death bed scene for their social security collecting character. Feh, runners go out with a bang. Capital 'R' Romantics; live fast, die young. Again, IMO.

8)

*edit* Herald should be laughing at me. //spoiler clicky in your sig// good one man lol

Seidaku View Member Profile	Feb 21 2004, 11:00 PM Post #12
Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 23-April 03 Member No.: 4,489	Well, based on some of the speculation in AH's recent annotation, there could well be shapeshifters alive in Shadowrun who were also alive in Earthdawn. Though Jungle Cat's identity isn't really known, if AH's guess about him being a jaguar shapeshifter is correct, you've got yourself one mighty old 'shifter. A few choice quotes: :::::[JUNGLE CAT] Must I forever by compelled to associate with juveniles? --> in reference to Hecate, though this might not be regarding age. Though, it seems to be. :::::[JUNGLE CAT] Atzcapotzalco has always been something of an enigma, even when he was still a public figure. We've received clear reports that he is magically capable and quite proficient; yet when I was in Aztlan on business ten years ago (in my "guise") I actually managed to get close to him for a short time. I felt a palpable sense of power about him, and yet no effluence of an easily discernible aura. I thought perhaps it was a double, but all other evidence indicated otherwise. --> Well, he's at least 10 years old. And like AH mentions, the "guise" probably indicates his human form. :::::[JUNGLE CAT] Such corruption was possible before...but now? So soon? --> Though he might have only heard of what he speaks about, it sounds like he has first hand knowledge of it.

snowRaven View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 12:04 AM Post #13
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516	I'd give shapeshifters similar lifespans to humans, maybe slightly longer. I think any creature with regeneration should have a higher-than-average lifespan (unless, of course, you want to go the route of fast replenishing of cells = fast aging of cells, which isn't too far fetched...)

REM

Feb 22 2004, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE (snowRaven)

I'd give shapeshifters similar lifespans to humans, maybe slightly longer.

I think any creature with regeneration should have a higher-than-average lifespan (unless, of course, you want to go the route of fast replenishing of cells = fast aging of cells, which isn't too far fetched...)

Actually my personal idea is that the whole regeneration thing could lead to immortality. as all of your old, dead, and weak cells are replaced through regeneration. Same way vamps can cheat aging if you ask me.

Shadow

Feb 22 2004, 01:59 AM

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QUOTE (Shev @ Feb 21 2004, 11:19 AM)

I don't recall any rules on that in the SRComp. I would say that they age seven times faster in their wolf form than they do in human form. So, if they spent a year straight as a wolf, then shifted into human they would appear to be seven years older, not just a year.

That make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Why would they age seven times faster? And why only when their in animal form? They are the same creature regardless of there current form. Changing shape would have no logical affect on their aging.

A more reasonable answer would be they have a life span of the average between human and their animal form. Humans live on average 55 (SR) and tigers live to be 20, so they would hit old age around 30.

Or you could just make it up, but please keep it in the realm of believability.

k1tsune View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 02:18 AM Post #16
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 5,740	I was going to say something less than humans, but then I looked at the Jungle Cat thing... Could there be "immortal shifters"? Okay, this is bugging me more than ever.

BitBasher

Feb 22 2004, 02:34 AM

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QUOTE

Same way vamps can cheat aging if you ask me.

Except that vamps have the power "immunity to age" and shifters do not.

toturi View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 03:38 AM Post #18
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	Duh! "The rest of us age a lot faster than you do." Place that line.

Panzergeist View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 07:37 AM Post #19
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676	They should age at the same rate in both forms, since their dna is the same. I would say they live as long as humans, since if they lived 15 years they would have to be elderly by the time they even learn 27 skill points. Even if they are as smart as humans, they need time to learn stuff. In fact, they might live longer due to their regeneration.

BitBasher View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 08:46 AM Post #20
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Panzergeist if that were true then orcs would get less generation points due to their shortened lifespan compared to humans.

spotlite

Feb 22 2004, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE (Panzergeist @ Feb 22 2004, 07:37 AM)

... I would say they live as long as humans ...

I agree with that part of the post. I agree with BitBasher's argument about the rest.

I think that as a minimum they live as long as humans. Their natural form is an animal, true, suggesting that they live as long as the animal. But all shapeshifters as far as I'm aware shift into human form. No other metatypes are represented. So if you're going to decide they age differently to their animal form for whatever reason I'd say go with the human lifespan as that's what they shift into.

I don't think they age as fast as their animal type because of Jungle Cat, as has already been quoted. That 'ten year' comment he made - he was in Aztlan ten years ago on business. He must be considerably older than 10 years, unless they learn and develop at an astonishing rate allowing them to integrate without detection into human society. Even if they do learn that fast, it means by the time he's posting on this issue on shadowland he must be ancient and grizzled, which doesn't seem likely given how quick he is to get angry and issue threats.

Say a Panther is full grown in four years (and old at ten-twelve) and the shifter variant ages at the same rate - that means in four years he's had to learn to act human enough to pass, and must've initiated at least once to learn to mask (or theres no way he got close enough to whatshisface). In four years from birth? While learning languages, hunting skills, human skills and so on? No, I really don't think so.

Orks learn at the same rate as humans, as do trolls, elves etc. an eighteen year old ork may physically be 30 human years but intellectually he's still only 18. I've seen no evidence of shifters being smarter or that much quicker to learn than humans.

There isn't anything written down anywhere to clarify so it does come down to a GM call. They aren't immortal unless they become so at high initiate grades or something ,as is hinted at for IEs, because although they do regenerate they aren't immune to age, disease, etc. I don't think its at all likely that they're very short lived though - if they're going to allow them as PCs I think they'd have mentioned if they died particularly young, as you'd have to pick how many seasons old you were and keep very close track of time.

Lilt View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 04:13 PM Post #22
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032	I think that Jungle Cat, if he is a shifter, would be an "imortal shifter" as k1tsune suggested. Wasn't there some deal with something from Dunkie's will that would give everyone IE-like longevity genes? And there were Immortal Dwarfs (or was there just one?) in ED IIRC. Essentially: Anything can be immortal. As for the life-span of normal shifters: I'd say it was quite long. They have the regeneration power for a start, that should stop them from dieing from anything short of their brain completely ceasing to function. OK: So they don't have Immunity(Age) but I'd say they'd have long lifespans, on-par with elves.

Kanada Ten View Member Profile	Feb 22 2004, 08:35 PM Post #23
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826	I think the regeneration power simply weakens with age similar to how the regenerative effects of all life weakens until death. As for Jungle Cat, it seems possible that dragons created shifters (or at least use them) since we have at least three cases of shifters as dragon pawns. If they did make them, it seems likely shifters would have drake like lifespans because dragons wouldn't want to remake a trusted servant every few decades.

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