Clairvoyance & Clairaudience, How does this work again? :? Options

[Hecatonchires]

I have a player in my game with Clairvoyance and Clairaudience (C&C hence). Really useful spells theoretically, but I can seem to pin down how they work. Most magic is LOS based in which case it means that C & C work like super binoculars with sound (out to force x sorcery range in meters). But it also gives the impression that detection spells can target something that you can't see (it's in the list of modifiers). Does that mean that you can detect something you can't see out to your max range (or does that only work for area detection spells such as "detect enemy")? See where I am coming from? This is really vague and I have a player who wants to know if he can use C&C to find out what is happening on the other side of a wall? Canon answers and opinions are both welcome.

[Sphynx]

You are the target, so LOS doesn't matter. The TN of 6 is because, as the table shows, you are trying to detect something outside of your LOS. You aren't targetting what you can't see, you're targetting yourself to see things you can't see.

Sphynx

[spotlite]

don't forget if they are sustaining both spells without using foci and without a focused concentration edge (or a supply of Psyche), they will be on +4 cumulative modifiers to interpret what they detect with the spells, rendering them a lot less useful.

[Sphynx]

Perhaps +4 to do more than look, but not just for looking at what's on the other side of a wall. The only modifier is the +2 on the 2nd spell cast. Once both spells are cast, unless you're trying to disarm a bomb or something via the spells, you're not gonna receive a +4 to see/hear what's going on on the other side of a wall.

However, the spells ARE resisted, so seeing an empty room (which is actually filled with people) because you got 1 success with TN 6 and they got 2 successes with TN force of spell (3 being common) is not all that unlikely. You really do have to House Rule alot to make any detection spells other than Combat Sense be of any real use.

Sphynx

[Hecatonchires]

Danke gentlemen.

I am still wondering what the range is on clairvoyance? (Force x
Sorcery?). Ah well, perhaps I will just House Rule it and be done.

[Rev]

The description of detection spells in general describes their range. Probably forcexmagic meters or something like that. Then there are extended range ones in mits.

[RedmondLarry]

Correct, Rev, the new sense works for the Subject out to a range of Force x Magic in meters (SR3 p. 192 first paragraph). Force x 10 x Magic for the Extended Sense (MitS p. 56) version of the spell.