Armorer Bullets, Making mah own bang bang! Options

[Raven the Tricks...]

What do you guys think about making a lead backed and cored wooden bullet for vampire hunting? I don't know enough about the mechanics of bullets to know if that's an even remotely functional idea, but it seemed cool in theory.

[Sengir]

I don't think that a wooden surface would interact nicely with the rifling, so how about the reverse approach? A "soft" hollow point bullet with a wood pin along the longitudinal axis sounds more realistic to me.

[Deadmannumberone]

What do you guys think about making a lead backed and cored wooden bullet for vampire hunting? I don't know enough about the mechanics of bullets to know if that's an even remotely functional idea, but it seemed cool in theory.

If you use one of the denser hardwoods, you'd end up with a round similar to the Hi-C plastic rounds, though availability may be higher. And wood interacts just fine with the rifling of a barrel.

[Raven the Tricks...]

The reason for the lead backing was really so it would interact better with the rifling anyways, since I wasn't sure about how the wood would interact with rifling on its own.

[Sengir]

And wood interacts just fine with the rifling of a barrel.

Well, according to my grandfather the exercise rounds for the Kar98 had wooden bullets and only produced a sawdust cloud...any records of real wooden bullets?

[Yerameyahu]

This is the silliest idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Well...I would go with something like this...

Desktop Nanoforge (recently pointed out to me as an alternative)

The benefit, is actually two fold...less expensive and more accurate.

Let me qualify the accuracy claim. A lot of handloaders aren't just there to save money they are doing it to get the most accurate match up between their firearm and their ammunition. The bullet, the powder, and the primer...each is a different element in an attempt to maximize accuracy and terminal ballistics out of a single firearm (especially rifles).

How many rounds an hour...five to ten hours to get setup (different test loads, chronographed from a benchrest, and compare groupings). Once you have settled on a load, you can easily do 300 to 400 rounds in an hour (depending on your setup, although the manufacturers claim a couple hundred more an hour).


In game...

Savings...it varies but you wouldn't be out of line saying 10-15%.

Accuracy...+1 wouldn't seem out of line.

[Yerameyahu]

+1 DP would be worth *paying* 15%, 20% more, with a huge smile on your face. I'm all for a nominal price reduction for investing time and equipment, but a mechanical bonus of any kind is a bad idea.

[Deadmannumberone]

Well, according to my grandfather the exercise rounds for the Kar98 had wooden bullets and only produced a sawdust cloud...any records of real wooden bullets?

Most likely they used ash, oak, pine, cedar, or maple, not the more dense (and resilient) woods like teak or ebony.

[Yerameyahu]

Man, I don't even wanna know what teak and ebony cost in 2070.

[Deadmannumberone]

Man, I don't even wanna know what teak and ebony cost in 2070.

Probably a couple hundred grand per kilo, or around a quarter nuyen a gram. Since most bullets are a few grams, 150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for 10 rounds is reasonable.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, if it's 200,000¥/kg, that's 200¥/g, right? So that's like 600¥ per *bullet*, plus shaping and mass loss therefrom?

[Deadmannumberone]

Sorry, I meant per cord, not kilo. One cord of teak weighs about 3,000 kg, thus, once processed into bullet sized lumps, it ends up costing around a quarter a gram (or there abouts).

[Raven the Tricks...]

I suppose you could always do it as a discarding sabot type round, that would gave a further benefit of being able to use a plastic sabot and maybe even managing a fully non metalic round out of the bargain. Don't know how well the flight characteristics of such a round would work though. Any thoughts from the rl gun knowledgable members?

[Bob Lord of Evil]

+1 DP would be worth *paying* 15%, 20% more, with a huge smile on your face. I'm all for a nominal price reduction for investing time and equipment, but a mechanical bonus of any kind is a bad idea.

Actually I reduced the savings, in RL you can save about 50% on most popular calibers by handloading.

Handloads that bestow said benefit are specific to a single weapon and thus can't be freely traded amongst party members. It takes time to manufacture the ammo. Initial investment...say 6K for the dies, progressive presses, cartridge trimmer, chronograph, etc.. Hey, you could even require that they have a high-speed camera for slow motion flight path analysis...tack on 80K. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is hard to imagine that +1 DP is going to break the game.

Would you explain your reasoning against this?

[Deadmannumberone]

I suppose you could always do it as a discarding sabot type round, that would gave a further benefit of being able to use a plastic sabot and maybe even managing a fully non metalic round out of the bargain. Don't know how well the flight characteristics of such a round would work though. Any thoughts from the rl gun knowledgable members?

As I stated earlier, the high density hardwoods will have similar flight characteristics to the Hi-C plastic rounds.

Actually I reduced the savings, in RL you can save about 50% on most popular calibers by handloading.

Handloads that bestow said benefit are specific to a single weapon and thus can't be freely traded amongst party members. It takes time to manufacture the ammo. Initial investment...say 6K for the dies, progressive presses, cartridge trimmer, chronograph, etc.. Hey, you could even require that they have a high-speed camera for slow motion flight path analysis...tack on 80K. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is hard to imagine that +1 DP is going to break the game.

Would you explain your reasoning against this?

Realism based:
A firearms kit for basic handloads, with a 50% savings; A firearms shop or better for the more accurate handloads that give a +1 DP when used in a match grade gun (modification that uses one modification slot, has availability of 12, threshold of 15, and costs 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) at standard price with productivity rate halved (unless using a microfac). Require an Armorer + Logic (6, 1 hour) extended test (with bonuses from a Math SPU, science/physics knowledges, and relevant sensors) to get the basic formula.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Realism based:
A firearms kit for basic handloads, with a 50% savings; A firearms shop or better for the more accurate handloads that give a +1 DP when used in a match grade gun (modification that uses one modification slot, has availability of 12, threshold of 15, and costs 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) at standard price with productivity rate halved (unless using a microfac). Require an Armorer + Logic (6, 1 hour) extended test (with bonuses from a Math SPU, science/physics knowledges, and relevant sensors) to get the basic formula.

Seems infinitely reasonable, well done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

There are already so many DP bonuses, and this would be yet another post-split one as well. I mean, do what you want in your game. *shrug*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually I reduced the savings, in RL you can save about 50% on most popular calibers by handloading.

Handloads that bestow said benefit are specific to a single weapon and thus can't be freely traded amongst party members. It takes time to manufacture the ammo. Initial investment...say 6K for the dies, progressive presses, cartridge trimmer, chronograph, etc.. Hey, you could even require that they have a high-speed camera for slow motion flight path analysis...tack on 80K. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is hard to imagine that +1 DP is going to break the game.

Would you explain your reasoning against this?

I really think that your cost estimates for the equipment are WAY off here... You could roll all of what you just described into a Shop for 5,000 Nuyen...

Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith