Controlling Mind Control, ...the easy way is always Mind. Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

To the OP and BBEGs in Shadowrun:
Re: Background count -- despite the common wisdom here on Dumpshock use these carefully. They drastically increase the likelihood of TPK as they usually weaken your mage while boosting the opposition mages.

Only if that Backgrond count is actually aspected to the opposition Mages tradition... otherwise it hampers them as well...

Keep the Faith

[Cheops]

Only if that Backgrond count is actually aspected to the opposition Mages tradition... otherwise it hampers them as well...

Keep the Faith

Yup but it really strains suspension of disbelief when corporate mages aren't using aspected background counts. Can still work in the Barrens or when not on home turf.

Of course you cut the important part of my post which is that there is no way to "protect" your BBEG from ANY of the team not just the mage. You have to rethink the concept of BBEG in SR.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yup but it really strains suspension of disbelief when corporate mages aren't using aspected background counts. Can still work in the Barrens or when not on home turf.

Of course you cut the important part of my post which is that there is no way to "protect" your BBEG from ANY of the team not just the mage. You have to rethink the concept of BBEG in SR.

Initially, I was only replying to your Background Count argument... As for aspecting those background counts, it is difficult to do and requires a Metamagic ability to do so... How many of your Corporate Mages are both Initiated into the deeper mysteries and actually have the Proper Mertamagic to use it to its fullest extent (afterall, there are a lot of very useful Metamagics out there)... If they are common, then you are probably going to have Geomantic wars between the varying factions, screwing with the Aspect for a Domain... Not that that is a bad thing. I think that it adds a certain depth to the game, as you attempt to screw with the Mojo of the Corporation before actually moving in on the target itself.

Additionally, how many of your Corporate MAges actually have the same Tradition... aspecting a Domain to a single Tradition will certainly screw with your other Magical Assets if they do not follow that same tradition... good luck changing the Tradition outlook for a Magician once he has been hired after all. And then you also have the issue of having an Shadowrunner who shares the same tradition that the corporate is aspected to. Whole lot of issues are going to crop up from this in my opinion... which is why a good number of Corporations would probably not go to the effort of Aspecting a Domain to a Specific Tradition.

As for the BBEG, if the players goal is to kill it, they will probably find a way unless the BBEG is a Plot Hammer/Mary Sue/Deus Ex Machina... If it has stats, then characters will indeed attempt kill it, and may possibly succeed if they try hard enough. Of course, there are always alternatives to the "Kill it all and let God sort it out" approach.

Keep the Faith

[tagz]

Not all background counts are placed intentionally. There are a myriad of factors that can create a background count.

Also, consider that a background count can only be altered with the use of the Geomancy Metamagic. Not all wage mages will have this. Also, the domain becomes aspected towards the same tradition as the one who performed the ritual. What if not all your corporate mages are from the same tradition? It would suck for your regular wage mages in a facility if they hired out some Geomancer from a different site that aspected the place towards only half the mages on the facility.

Third, the ritual says that improper lore of the site can interfere with the ritual. To my understanding, what this means is that they might have to feng shui the landscaping and that could cause interference with day to day operations, security, etc, and it would cost a lot too.

Seems more expensive and bothersome to me then the managers telling the mages "Suck it up, we pay you to deal with exactly this sort of situation".

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not all background counts are placed intentionally. There are a myriad of factors that can create a background count.

Also, consider that a background count can only be altered with the use of the Geomancy Metamagic. Not all wage mages will have this. Also, the domain becomes aspected towards the same tradition as the one who performed the ritual. What if not all your corporate mages are from the same tradition? It would suck for your regular wage mages in a facility if they hired out some Geomancer from a different site that aspected the place towards only half the mages on the facility.

Third, the ritual says that improper lore of the site can interfere with the ritual. To my understanding, what this means is that they might have to feng shui the landscaping and that could cause interference with day to day operations, security, etc, and it would cost a lot too.

Seems more expensive and bothersome to me then the managers telling the mages "Suck it up, we pay you to deal with exactly this sort of situation".

Well said Tagz... Could not have said it better (and in fact Didn't... Oh Well)

Keep the Faith

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'm with Tagz and TJ on the point of whether or not it will be aspected to a tradition in corp territory.

Where I may differ is I think people overuse background count by a large margin(or at least how people say they use it here on DS). It is not even introduced until street magic, if it is supposed to be as prevalent as people suggest it would be in the main book IMO. While I can see it as a curb for dice monsters I think even low levels of it almost break the setting if it is in too many locations. How many magic 1 people are out there and trying to do magic, the average corp mage has a 3 magic and 3 spellcasting if background count of 1-2 was all over the place they basically couldn't do anything magical. Yeah, I'm paying a lot for mr do nothing over there. Use background count to balance a player sure, but don't put it everywhere because that is how you assume the setting is. Even low levels turn the average mage off like a light switch if that is how you see the world where most mages can't do much of anything magical in most places hey go for it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm with Tagz and TJ on the point of whether or not it will be aspected to a tradition in corp territory.

Where I may differ is I think people overuse background count by a large margin(or at least how people say they use it here on DS). It is not even introduced until street magic, if it is supposed to be as prevalent as people suggest it would be in the main book IMO. While I can see it as a curb for dice monsters I think even low levels of it almost break the setting if it is in too many locations. How many magic 1 people are out there and trying to do magic, the average corp mage has a 3 magic and 3 spellcasting if background count of 1-2 was all over the place they basically couldn't do anything magical. Yeah, I'm paying a lot for mr do nothing over there. Use background count to balance a player sure, but don't put it everywhere because that is how you assume the setting is. Even low levels turn the average mage off like a light switch if that is how you see the world where most mages can't do much of anything magical in most places hey go for it.

I tend to support (and have absolutely no problem with) localized, temporary Background Counts... many of these are created by the intensity of emotion that you might get from a Rave, or an Urban Brawl game at the stadium, a site of mass murder, traumatic Natural Disasters, etc. There are also some indications on how to use Background Count, and guidelines on how to set it up a bit (in Street Magic). I do not see LOTS of small, permanent Background Counts, as that would take a lot of sustained reinforcement that I do not see as very prevelant.

In addition, there are some areas of the world that would inherently have more Background Count than others... the Dragon lines of Hong Kong is one that immediuately comes to mind, as well as Tir na nOg... Background Count is a tool... it should not be over-used, but is often appropriate for specific jobs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Aarakin]

Something to keep in mind is that Mental Control/Manipulation is by no means long term....

SR4a pg210
Mental Manipulations: For Mental Manipulation spells, the
caster makes an Opposed Spellcasting + Magic Test against the target’s
Willpower (+ Counterspelling, if available). If the caster scores more hits,
she controls the target as noted in the spell description. Every (Force)
Combat Turns, the victim may spend a Complex Action to shake off the
mental control. The victim rolls a Willpower (+ Counterspelling) Test;
each hit reduces the net hits on the caster’s original Spellcasting Test. If the
spellcaster’s net hits are reduced to 0, the spell no longer affects the target.

So your Mind Bending Mage can Mob Mind the entire room and have control...for a while, so get them to shoot each other real quick!

And I bet they are going to be mighty pissed at the individual who had them under their thumb, should any be alive when it does wear off

[IceKatze]

hi hi

In many of the games I have played in, Corp research facilities commonly have at least some level of background count due to the horrible experiments going on inside/use of radioactive technology. For that matter, hospitals may need to keep the radiology department separate from the magical healing ward because of background count. I don't think they would be hiring mages aspected to toxic, even if they could. (usually)

I don't think there are any hard rules about radiation and background count, I do believe it is a relatively common theme in the literature.