Personal TacNet Options

[MithrilGear]

Okay my GM and I have been butting head for most of the day now and so I'm going here to post my idea here and see what everyone else thinks.

So I'm building a hacker (propriety system) and I've decided to do something completely out there.

I'm taking his two cyberarms and turning them into drones effectively.

What I did was install a cyberarm gun slide, and have a firearm with an internal smart-link. That's two peripheral nodes right, not enough to run a pilot or an agent really, so what I then did was take the two and make them into a clustered node (Unwired Pg 55.)

From there slap an pilot/agent with the appropriate softs and viola! Instant dual-wielding gunman. There are a few setbacks though.

First one, hacking. Simple enough to solve. Since the hardware is wired to my runners body I simple installed touch-links and turned off wireless capability, problem solved.

Next problem, thinking about it I thought that just having the camera in the smart-link wouldn't be enough so I proceeded to add a tailored sensor package to the cyberarms installing a few cameras in there so that the pilot program could have "eyes in the back of his head" in a sense.

Now this is where the head butting comes in.

Currently I am walking around with three standard nodes. The one in my commlink, and the two in my cyberarms. Reading through Unwired I came across the the TacNet software (Unwired pg. 124) and thought, "Hey I should have eyes in the back of my head too." After a small headache I figure that I could slave the two nodes to mine and create and centralized network while the arms were in what I called "Trick Shot" mode. From there boot up the TacNet software and there you go.

Issues my GM had

I1. Drones and Agents have dog-brains, so they can't use TacNet soft.
A1. It says right there in Unwired pg 125 that drones may run TacNet on their systems, and when you think about it. All TacNet does is take information from all available sources and determines the best courses of action, and then sends that info to those subscribed to it. How can a dog-brain with which all its descriptions is based of the info it has not benefits from it?

I2. The Cyberarms are part of you, so they would count towards your sensors.
A2. Normally yes, but the metahuman brain can't all that sensory input at once. Its literally like trying to look at fifteen things at once, so thats like splitting a perception pool fifteen ways. But that's why they agents are in the arms/drones. They can receive the information from their sensors and relay it over the TacNet creating a better overview of the situation.

I3. The TacNet wouldn't work because you are in such close proximity to each other.
A3. Well that's true...things like indirect fire, infiltration, piloting and all those tests wouldn't be possible because we wouldn't have the distance covered, but what I am looking for is a more spatial awareness. With this "Personal TacNet" I could still get bonuses from things like firearms, dodge, close combat, perception, surprise tests since they will be dealing with my runner directly.


Anyway ,that's my spill. Please leave comments, questions, answers , idea below. I'm looking for other opinions besides my GM so I can reinforce what I believe to be plausible here. If you are somewhat confused here, please reference Unwired about Slaving Nodes, Cluster Nodes, Peripheral and Standard Nodes, and the TacNet software. Then leave a question here.

Thank you for the help.

And please no flaming or trolling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[MithrilGear]

You know with all that talking I wonder if I actually said anything...

[Yerameyahu]

It's just too ridiculous. Your arms aren't drones, and they *are* part of you. Pilot isn't Agent, either.

[MithrilGear]

But why couldn't I turn them into drones? Although you are right about the agent/pilot things. It would have to be a pilot program.

[Yerameyahu]

Because they're not drones, they're cyberlimbs. Drones are vehicles with a Pilot (and probably Rigger Adaptation), or Critters with Goad/CAST/Stirrup; you can also modify firearms into Drones, if they have mod slots, and the Smart Platform is a special immobile 'vehicle' drone. That's basically it. You can't turn a commlink into a drone, or a credstick, or a toothbrush… or a cyberlimb. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Even if you did, they'd be part of your body, like the cybereye iBall drone. Until it's undocked from your head, it's a cybereye, *not* a drone. It's part of you (in a fundamental, Essence-based way), and can't be a TacNet member. Neither can handheld sensors velcro'd to your vest be members of a TacNet; they're *your* sensors.

Finally, you'd need a bunch of sensor channels, *and* the smallest TacNet group is more than 3, isn't it?

[MithrilGear]

Well yes generally you can't a cyberlimb doesn't have a enough power. Thats why one would have to add a processor to the cyberarm and make a clustered node (Which only requires two peripheral nodes) with another object like a smartlinked gun. Then the arm and gun would have a standerd node, which can be ran by a pilot program built around using that cyberarm. Then the cyberarm would require two modes. A "passive" mode where the pilot isn't active and you can use your arm as you wish and an "active" mode where the Pilot is in control and you are effectively cut off from your own limb. It is only in "active" mode that the TacNet would work cause at that point my comm isn't receiving the data, it the pilot program.

And its easy to add sensors to a cyberlimb, it just take up it capacity as does everything else.

[MithrilGear]

When you think about it, a drone is nothing but a mess of plasteel, wires, and circuits, with a few special bits here and there to give it purpose. A cyberlimb is the same thing. A drone uses a pilot program, or is jumping into by a rigger. A human uses it brains. If a human can jump into drones, why can't a pilot jump into human machinery?

[Xahn Borealis]

First one, hacking. Simple enough to solve. Since the hardware is wired to my runners body I simple installed touch-links and turned off wireless capability, problem solved.

It's skinlink, not touch link. I find it puzzling how many people make this mistake. If you look up touch link, it actually states it provides tactile information. That's it. It goes along with the image link and sound link ware, all part of building an AR experience without a sim module.

[MithrilGear]

Oh...well another mistake on my part then. Its always the little details too...

[StConstantine]

just because there are no rules for it specifically written down doesnt mean it cant be done. Its actually a big deal in shadowrun, because its set in the future u can pretty much always find a techie with the ability to build a drone that does just what you want.

i have a feeling what u thematically want ur character to do is essentially the same as skillsofts, or maybe im wrong

[MithrilGear]

In a sense it is like skillwires, but this mostly came about looking for a minimize the penalties for dual-wielding tee heh <3. But in the end trying to make someone who can still fight back while hacking, unconscious, or otherwise busy.

[StConstantine]

its a pretty cool idea. Like if u had an entire exosuit which is all a drone, u strap urself in and go limp, then u use all the drones stats as ur own while still being with it. It would be great for those runs where the GM forces the whimpy hacker to leave his armored step van and get into the thick of it otherwise its probably better to just stay away altogether, you would have to be a pretty bad hacker if u went limp somewhere u could get ganked.

[MithrilGear]

Well I wouldn't take it that far.

[Yerameyahu]

While the mechanical answer is that arms (at least, docked arms) simply can't be drones, period, the other answers are also valid. That is, they're part of you, so they're just your senses, and they're on of your body, so they're not really a tactical network.

It sounds like you're only talking about 'sensory awareness', which is just your Perception roll; buff that (*so* many ways). For dual-wielding, just increase the Agility of your limbs: instant +DP to those Fire tests, to compensate. The problem is that you're trying to make things do what they don't, to make something else do what it doesn't, all for a really minor (and inappropriate) bonus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It'd be much simpler and wholly within the rules to get a few little fly-spy drones to follow you around. With enough sensor upgrades, you might be able to set up a very small TacNet.

[Mäx]

Well he could just make the guns drines with the modification rules in Arsenal and then slave his arm to those drones control, couldn't he.

[sabs]

Well he could just make the guns drines with the modification rules in Arsenal and then slave his arm to those drones control, couldn't he.

He could
That would make eating really amusing.

[Yerameyahu]

No, I thought about that, but the cyberweapons can't be modded like that, AFAIK. but he could just *carry* two drone-modded guns in his hands, after all. He has some semi-legitimate options here, without making really large new rules.

[Ascalaphus]

I think it's an interesting attempt to achieve Ambidexterity through augmentations though, that's not bad.

[sabs]

No, I thought about that, but the cyberweapons can't be modded like that, AFAIK. but he could just *carry* two drone-modded guns in his hands, after all. He has some semi-legitimate options here, without making really large new rules.

Why can't he drone the arms? and relinquish control?
Lets say that his arms were replaced with droned cyber arms that are /not/ linked into his neural net.
He has to control them exactly like drones. He can never use them like regular arms, except via the command program or 'jumping in." which would be funny cause then the rest of his body would go slack.

Also, I really believe that a single person running tacnet soft should get /some/ benefit.
It's highlighting bad guys in your field of vision, giving you suggested optimal targets and zones. Prioritizing who is a bigger threat at any given moment.

Course, there should be a tacnet skill that lets you handle all the extra information, and how to use it.

[Mäx]

No, I thought about that, but the cyberweapons can't be modded like that, AFAIK. but he could just *carry* two drone-modded guns in his hands, after all. He has some semi-legitimate options here, without making really large new rules.

He doesnt have cyberweapons, he has guns in cyberarm-slides.

[otakusensei]

If a player wanted both his arms, attached to his body, to be independent firing platforms I'd let him do it. Then I'd slap him with a -2 penalty per arm and require Athletics checks to maintain his balance while his arms tried to kill people while he was trying to walk.

[Banaticus]

While the mechanical answer is that arms (at least, docked arms) simply can't be drones, period

I don't see why not. He's not controlling them -- he's like Doc Oc when the arms go crazy and start attacking on their own. Hmm... new character idea... that cyberarm that you can attack to your chest, what if I had four of them, extensible, attached to my back... but I digress. I don't see why he can't make his arms drones and relinquish control. He'd have to point the guns in the "general" direction or else he'd have a penalty to athletics checks because it'd essentially be like trying to carry a large squirming monkey while your hands are strapped to your pants, but as long as he points them in about the right direction so that the arms aren't whipping around him then he should be good.

[MindandPen]

Okay my GM and I have been butting head for most of the day now and so I'm going here to post my idea here and see what everyone else thinks.

Let's go back to the beginning here. Do you really want to have this degree of a fight with your GM? You've gotten a lot of posts with what is potentially wrong with this based on RAW, but the fundamental question is about your relationship with your GM.

-M&P

[The Dragon Girl]

Actually this seems pretty well thought out and in the realm of possibility to -me-, and additionally sounds pretty cool, along with having its own complications that could be amusing as anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Xahn Borealis]

Also, I really believe that a single person running tacnet soft should get /some/ benefit.
It's highlighting bad guys in your field of vision, giving you suggested optimal targets and zones. Prioritizing who is a bigger threat at any given moment.

I agree with this, after all it's in Unwired.

To an individual, tacsofts can sometimes offer interesting advice, but they really thrive when used in a networked environment.