Something completely Different, Spoiler possible Options

[TranKirsaKali]

Ok I am sure SaintHax has already chimed in on this one. But I can't find it. And I just have to vent. For those that know me I normally love missions and defend them to anyone. This time it is different alright this mission was the worst mission ever written. I truly regret ever playing it. Stop reading here if you do not want to know about the mission. I do not know how to do the white out bit.




The mission was a rail road from the opening sentence. No negotiations allowed, no chance to even try as you never even get to see the Johnson or talk to them. Getting a message telling me to walk out of the closet and do the job and oh sorry for drugging you and blanking your memory it was necessary. Bull, there is no way my character would have allowed anyone to do that to her. She would have walked out of the job with out looking back. My first thought was ok so who do I kill for drugging me, taking my armor and gear, stripping me down and putting weird clothes on me. But no I am supposed to just accept this and do the job. Then you get rail roaded into going onto a meta plane to solve puzzles and waste time in a racing derby. To finally meet up with the free spirit to either convince him to behave nicely or kill him. This mission took all of 1 hour for a team of 3 to run. There was no choices to be made but one. Well ok 2. I kind of wish I had done what my instincts had said to and just killed the chaos mages and spirits. No way to react truthfully as your character and stay on mission. And the writer really didn't seem to have a good grasp of what a magic user would do. There was nothing in the module for astral perception and if you didn't have a hacker you couldn't do part of what the mission had in it. There was no way to find out who this mysterious Johnson was. Just as a point of note. I really hope he never shows up in a mission again. If he does he is dead. No one drugs my shaman and doesn't pay the price for it. PLEASE never let that writer write anything for missions ever again. And if you have to pay for this mission save your money. It is not worth the Karma or con cost. Let alone your time and energy.

This post has been edited by TranKirsaKali: Jun 14 2010, 09:40 PM

[BlueMax]

May I suggest you add whitespace. Linebreaks in particular. Having not played any of the New York Missions, I have no comment otherwise.

BlueMax

[Bull]

TranKirsaKali: Where/When did you play this Mission? I know it was run at the summer cons last year. But we did an overhaul of it earlier this year, and some parts of it play vastly different. The revamped Mission hasn't gone out yet though, I don't think.

As I understand it, this was something they tried to do something, well, completely different, outside the standard Shadowrun adventure. The early versions definitely had some issues, from what I saw, so hopefully those have been at least partially resolved with the rewritten version of it.

Bull

[Wasabi]

I've played it and while my experience was pleasant it has some serious pitfalls not all GM's will have an ease in sidestepping.
There are some spoilers in my comments, below:

[ Spoiler ]

I played this mission at Dragoncon last year and had a really fantastic GM that made it fun so I myself enjoyed playing what I guess is called 'the old version' but not knowing if any ad-libbing was involved I cant speak about the mission writeup itself only my experience having played it.

After I had played it at Dragoncon I had a gap in my schedule and watched as another table literally went "Just go with it, CHOOO CHOOO!" every time someone tried to deviate from the railroad. Its not a terrible mission but sure seems to be one of the most difficult to adapt to a table full of strangers. I got lucky.

I've played with Transkirskali several times before and she isn't a negative person so if she is saying the mission was really upsetting then I totally believe that it was exactly *that* upsetting to her. I suggest if the mission doesn't already have one that it gain an extensive debugging section. My Viking mage didn't want to go down the railroad path and got cleverly shoehorned into it and I think that clever shoehorning may be easier for some GM's than others. If the writer(s) could check with the missions GM's on debugging they have actually *done* for that mission and format it heavily for debugging I can see it being a much more popular mission.

I also think having a dozen vignettes tailored each to a role (rigger/hacker/private eye/axewielding maniac/etc) and have the GM check the table and draw one page to match each character's role that everyone could have some spotlight-time. I seem to recall a race that our rigger loved and my viking loved loved LOVED the doppleganger portion, for example.

Anyways, its such a hard situation to 'sell' that it needs much more debugging than other missions and preferably a fantastic GM to make it come to life. In these regards it may need a helping hand and a further addition/revision to it to make it better.

[SaintHax]

Ok I am sure SaintHax has already chimed in on this one. But I can't find it.

I haven't played it yet, but I'll add to this thread if I ever get the chance.

[CollateralDynamo]

I played in this adventure in Gen Con of last year and, while the module's heart was in the right place, I would have to generally agree with Kali that it was poorly executed.

[ Spoiler ]

The character I play is a decker *ahem* hacker who is addicted to hot simming. He likes to stay out of the way as much as possible and is generally comatose in the car providing back-up with drones and a car that can compete with K.I.T. as far as intelligence goes. I'm telling you this not for my own personal character wank, I'm telling you this because a character like mine is really all about his gear, and about NOT going to the scene when it comes to bodyguarding. The FUN part of being a hacker/rigger is all the neat toys you get to make and support your team with. Having ALL of them taken away before I could even ACT was pretty shocking. I was willing to roll with it tho as I was able to readily get into the museum's system.

However, after a brief period of time we are forced into the astral. Instantly my character becomes unconnected and forced to do dangerous physical exertion and even get into a gun fight with himself (which was, I must say, embarrassing for both myself and my clone as my light pistol is really entirely for show not close encounters.)

Anyway, it was a railroad that didn't let me either play my character, or even play to my character's strengths. Half of the game seemed to take place in a post-apocalyptic wasteland...if you wanted to make it a metaplanar quest I would say that you should have stuck with one setting with a number of encounters that had to be done, but had any order allowed. Along with substantially more reasonable NPCs. Oh, and more then one solution to problems is always a plus. Also, adding some level of 'trix to the bizarre dimension you go to at least makes the hacker FEEL like he can help.

But I don't want to be a complete jerk. If the author was taking "Harlequin's Back" as his inspiration he did a decent job of condensing that into 4 hours...unfortunately when you condense that run you really are just hit constantly with "I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!!" So I don't think it would work out too well even if you the best author in the biz.

If Bull could give us a little hint as to what changes were made, I'd love him forever. Possibly even buy him a brew next GenCon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[TranKirsaKali]

TranKirsaKali: Where/When did you play this Mission? I know it was run at the summer cons last year. But we did an overhaul of it earlier this year, and some parts of it play vastly different. The revamped Mission hasn't gone out yet though, I don't think.

As I understand it, this was something they tried to do something, well, completely different, outside the standard Shadowrun adventure. The early versions definitely had some issues, from what I saw, so hopefully those have been at least partially resolved with the rewritten version of it.

Bull

I am sure I played the original not the re worked. I played it in a home game here in Orlando. And it really to me wasn't completely different. The Denver missions have something similar. I hope it has improved greatly. I enjoyed the mission in Denver where we went to a meta plane. Kali loves visiting them. They are fun for her. I think more than anything I was shocked at how much of a rail road this mission was. It was jarring. I fortunately have only had 2 bad experiences with missions. But I have to say they were doosies. The first was taken care of. This one (and I trust you Bull) hopefully has been for others as well. The only major suggestion I have for people at this point is make sure of which version you are running if you do this one.

And SaintHax, you are welcome to re post my review in your stuff if you would like. I am good with that.

Bull I am looking forward to experiencing the changes you have in mind.

Kali

[RobertB]

I've played it and while my experience was pleasant it has some serious pitfalls not all GM's will have an ease in sidestepping.
There are some spoilers in my comments, below:

[ Spoiler ]

I seem to recall a race that our rigger loved and my viking loved loved LOVED the doppleganger portion, for example.

[ Spoiler ]

You know, it was so important to my char to win that race I spent edge on it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I figured it was my personal vindication for not having much to do at the party except watching the closet door shudder every once in while due to the "complex actions" going on inside. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Robert (aka Spanner)

[TranKirsaKali]

RobertB all I have to say is I couldn't help but chuckle at your post.

[LurkerOutThere]

Having ran with Kali I do have a lot of respect for her, but having read or played through all of Denver and most of NYC this is the only one your throwing the flag for on doing unrealistic or arbitrary things to make a setup work? The missions campaign has been full of that.

[TranKirsaKali]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) No this is just the only one that made me angry enough for a public post and warning. I have had problems with other missions. To the point even where our team turned one down because of how the premise of the mission was presented to us. We were not willing to risk our reputations on it. There were others where there was arbitrary notoriety just because and issues with game play. But I try to give a good amount of room for fast writing and attempting to get materials out to us quickly. There is also how well the GM runs the game and the people you are playing with. And trust me there have been gripe sessions after several of the missions with the Dragon Con team. This one particular mission just managed to rub me raw and irritate me. I actually didn't post for a couple of days to cool off and type with a more level head! ROFLMAO.

And Lurker, thanks, now I realize way to many people on this forum have run missions with me. I am not sure if it is a good or bad thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

I believe i played Knight at the Opera with you Chromemonger and the rest of your team, it is possible I am thinking of someone else in which case I apologize.

[CollateralDynamo]

I played through Knight with Lurker and Kali I think, but I ain't her team. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

My memories of that table, hell that weekend, are fairly hazy other then having a blast and Red's now legendary DK fetish. That and rattler will likely scalp the next clown he sees.

[TranKirsaKali]

I believe i played Knight at the Opera with you Chromemonger and the rest of your team, it is possible I am thinking of someone else in which case I apologize.

CollateralDynamo Posted Yesterday, 05:29 PM
I played through Knight with Lurker and Kali I think, but I ain't her team. smile.gif

This was at Gen Con. Yes Chrom and I played with you both. I was actually picking on myself for playing around. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Chrom and I wish there was a way for us to be at both Dragon and Gen Con. But since that will not happen, we will be at Dragon Con with the team that we have been with for years. I had nothing but great experiences at Gen Con playing with everyone there. It was an absolute blast. We are looking forward to the time when we can take the time and go to both cons again. Until then we will be playing where are hearts are. See you soon Dragon Con, can't wait to run the last missions and the con missions with you all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[UmaroVI]

I also played this mission. We had a very skilled GM and I felt like he did as good a job as he possibly could with it, but that the adventure itself had major, major issues. We still had fun but it was in my opinion the worst designed SRM I played at origins. It also seemed like the sort where a less skilled GM could easily fall on his face. The whole thing felt like going through a series of "do you want to do nothing, or instead take the only possible action, regardless of whether that action is out of character or seemingly suicidal?" That said, I did still have fun with it.

Again, no offense to the GM, who I think did a very good job with it.

This post has been edited by UmaroVI: Jul 1 2010, 07:12 PM

[DWC]

After playing this at Gencon, I was really anxious to sit down and read through it. Got the email from DriveThru RPG today announcing it was on sale and picked it up.

Holy rewrites, Batman! The single most objectionable thing in the module is completely gone. The pay for the job is still laughable, but it's not as bad as it was.

[Bull]

After playing this at Gencon, I was really anxious to sit down and read through it. Got the email from DriveThru RPG today announcing it was on sale and picked it up.

Holy rewrites, Batman! The single most objectionable thing in the module is completely gone. The pay for the job is still laughable, but it's not as bad as it was.

There was an option in the module that was run at gen Con and Origins to sound out the players prior o the adventure and run a Meet with the Mr Johnson as the opening istead of the In Media Rez, but I don't think most (if any) GMs used that. Due to the feedback from playtesters and folks who played at the conventions this year (not to mention comments here), the decision was made to make the optional opening the standard.

Hopefully this helps make the adventure smoother and more fun for players.

Bull

[Wesley Street]

What everyone had initially played was a very rough first draft. I wrote the damn thing a looooong time ago and due to internal log-jams it never went through a formal editorial process before it was released for convention play. Then it sat for a very long time. Believe me, I know Something Completely Different initially sucked and if CGL hadn't been desperate for Missions modules to play at cons it never would have gone out. I sure didn't want it to. And you have my apologies if you didn't enjoy yourself and I take responsibility for the content.

But being able to walk away from a project for months and months and then approach it fresh for its "formal" release allowed me to gut it and rework it almost from scratch. The story is the same but (almost) everything else is different.

Full transparency: this is my first game piece so that probably shows. Not my first published game work, but the first thing I ever wrote under contract. However, I will say that the whole in media res thing was an editorial dictate from long ago (nothing is written in a vacuum). When Bull took over Missions he wasn't even aware of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Hence the new beginning option.

[Caine Hazen]

What everyone had initially played was a very rough first draft. I wrote the damn thing a looooong time ago and due to internal log-jams it never went through a formal editorial process before it was released for convention play. Then it sat for a very long time.

Dude, a few of us writing these things went through the same pain; I'm happy the new coordinater is getting the ball rolling again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[DWC]

[ Spoiler ]

I had no problem with the in media res portion. I've been happy with it when it has been done other places. My objection was the prospect that someone managed to talk a bunch of extremely socially competent professional contract felons into agreeing to have their memories altered for less money than they'd make robbing drug dealers down in Terminal.

That put me so far off that there wasn't much of a chance that I'd give the module a fair shake. Now, with the benefit of a glass of Grouse, and some time to sit down and read the final version that you were comfortable with, I'm pretty happy with it. I'd rather have seen it as a CMP module, since it's unrelated to anything actually going on in the Manhattan plot arc, but if I'd gotten over my own annoyed self-righteousness, I think I'd have had a pretty good time with it.

[Chance359]

We just ran this last night.

[ Spoiler ]

We had 2 Technos, 2 faces, a 4 armed mage, a two muscle types and my hacker. I'd heard stories about how bad this mission was based off previous versions so I was apprehensive to say the least. The meet with the Johnson went well, despite the low pay we accepted the job for 2400 (TR 6) and an extra 3600 after negotiations for a total of 6K, not bad but still on the lowish side.

The party itself went well, each of us following veiled suggestions by other players about things they wanted to do. As soon as the Happening began we sent our faces to talk to the mage about adding a world famous DJ to provide music for the Happening. One terrified mage later we were in a closet tripping on some magic pills leading us to the neather realms.. I mean metaplains.

About half the party wanted to stay behind because of their non-magical nature, but we talked all but one into the trip. We pasted the first test pretty quickly, I would have liked to see the second (self) become a contested roll between each player and the GM, the player rolling their best ability, with the gm rolling the same number of dice. The third test was done via a few rolls to speed up the mission.

We finally get where we're going and meet up with the creator of the Happening. We knew that beating him with the limited gear we had would probably see us all dead so we oppted to talk our way out. The faces convinced him that keeping people alive would give him a bigger audience, and after some amazing edge burning rolls, he agreed.

We returned to the real world and convinced the DJ to book the mage group and the free spirit to preform during his shows. We got paid and headed home.

Overall a lot more fun than I thought I would have had. I agree it should be part of CMP instead of the missions season because while solidly built, it doesn't continue to evolve the setting.

[Bull]

Well, it is set in New York, and keep in mind that this was written well before the CMPs were introduced.

[TranKirsaKali]

What everyone had initially played was a very rough first draft. I wrote the damn thing a looooong time ago and due to internal log-jams it never went through a formal editorial process before it was released for convention play. Then it sat for a very long time. Believe me, I know Something Completely Different initially sucked and if CGL hadn't been desperate for Missions modules to play at cons it never would have gone out. I sure didn't want it to. And you have my apologies if you didn't enjoy yourself and I take responsibility for the content.

But being able to walk away from a project for months and months and then approach it fresh for its "formal" release allowed me to gut it and rework it almost from scratch. The story is the same but (almost) everything else is different.

Full transparency: this is my first game piece so that probably shows. Not my first published game work, but the first thing I ever wrote under contract. However, I will say that the whole in media res thing was an editorial dictate from long ago (nothing is written in a vacuum). When Bull took over Missions he wasn't even aware of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Hence the new beginning option.

This explains a lot. I am sure if you had gone through a formal edit things would have been better. That and more time to write it. Sorry if I seemed harsh. It was just very frustrating to be on a train that obvious.

[LurkerOutThere]

I ran it the other night, it's not half bad, the initial offer is rather pitiful and it's kind of wonky that the negotiated up level can increase that by 100% or more with a good face but at least the pay goes into the bearable range.

There are a few minor problems:

[ Spoiler ]

I've been playing Shadowrun an awful long time and I recognized almost none of the people the statues were representing so i presume the names are going to go over most peoples heads. Instead I went with Elvis, Mariah Mercury, Nadja Daviar, and some other folks that were either recognizer real world or major folks 6th world.

The biggest problem however from first version to second version is this. The runners don't have their gear. If their poping pills to get to the astral vice astral gateway they are essentially naked, not a problem for unarmed combat specialists and mages but it more or less makes the face yourself portion of the test, let alone a potential fight with Mr. Dada an excersize in frustration or impossible. Personally our very excellent GM at origins chose to abstract the face yourself section of the module and that's the route I took deciding to go for a bit of introspection and roleplay over an inserted combat. I'll grant this may work because I consistantly run for the same group of characters and was a little harder for the guy with allergy, peanuts then others.

Overall good mod with one significant rough spot, much better now that the wake up naked in the closet section is gone.

Edit: Adjusted my spoiler tags.