Defaulting and Programs, Skills are for chumps now? Options

[Saint Sithney]

So, it recently came to my attention that one can default on matrix actions. Since matrix actions don't generally use (Attribute) + (Skill) to determine your DP, would you Default it to (Attribute -1) + (Program) to determine DP? In which case a completely untrained person with a boosted-up logic score of 9 would be able to outperform the most trained guy out there except in his specialty. It's still a Logic linked test, so one would even assume logic-linked bonuses from ware and qualities would go over as well.

Suddenly Gunnery goes from (Skill) + (Command) to (Agility-1) + (Command) which is almost invariably better.


I really can't wrap my head around what they intended here..

[tagz]

I would say since you arn't using the attributes in the first place, that when you default you would not add them in.

Like this:
Normal: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 3

Defaulting: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 0 + -1 defaulting modifier

So your example I would run it in my game as (Command -1).

I like to think of it like a 100% novice on a PC, the more intuitive and user friendly the program is (higher rating?) the easier it is for the user to figure it out without any previous skill.

The attribute not being linked to the test in question in the first place shouldn't suddenly add it because you're defaulting. Just my thoughts.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I would say since you arn't using the attributes in the first place, that when you default you would not add them in.

Like this:
Normal: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 3

Defaulting: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 0 + -1 defaulting modifier

So your example I would run it in my game as (Command -1).

I like to think of it like a 100% novice on a PC, the more intuitive and user friendly the program is (higher rating?) the easier it is for the user to figure it out without any previous skill.

The attribute not being linked to the test in question in the first place shouldn't suddenly add it because you're defaulting. Just my thoughts.

How it runs in our games as well... Program -1 for Defaulting...

Keep the Faith

[Saint Sithney]

Do you still add on modifiers from ware though?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Do you still add on modifiers from ware though?

We do, yes...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Doesn't sound like much of a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

I would say since you arn't using the attributes in the first place, that when you default you would not add them in.

Like this:
Normal: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 3

Defaulting: Exploit Program 4 + Hacking skill 0 + -1 defaulting modifier

So your example I would run it in my game as (Command -1).

I like to think of it like a 100% novice on a PC, the more intuitive and user friendly the program is (higher rating?) the easier it is for the user to figure it out without any previous skill.

The attribute not being linked to the test in question in the first place shouldn't suddenly add it because you're defaulting. Just my thoughts.

s
While you do not add in the dice, logic is the linked attribute so while I think your is the logical rule for a really efffing lame system from the get go(hey we have this awesome core mechanic where you use attribute+skill for a dice pool, awesome lets do that in everything but hacking.) I am not sure it is what the rules say. Hacking is an area I generally avoid though so I';; listen to whatever the experts on the field say.

[Wasabi]

For tests in the Matrix, a program or Matrix attribute is substituted for your regular attributes (Attributes in the Matrix, p.226, SR4A); when defaulting on Hacking, Computer, or most other skills in the Matrix, you default to (program rating - 1), not the normal linked attribute.

Source: http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml#mgeneral

[Shinobi Killfist]

Source: http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml#mgeneral

Cool it is actually covered by the rules.

[Saint Sithney]

Hooray!

faq-not-errata saves the day!

[Mäx]

Hooray!

faq-not-errata saves the day!

Well its based on the following part of the new Matrix chapter of the SR4A, understandaply this isn't in the errata as most of that chapter was remade.

Attributes in the Matrix
In the Matrix, you leave your meat body behind and surf the wireless
world with your mind, your intellect, and the programs you carry. Your
attributes take a back seat to the programs (or complex forms) you run.
Even Mental attributes like Logic are feeble before a three-million-toone-
or-better speed advantage and the need to compute thousands of
operations with every action taken. Ultimately your mind is simply
commanding your software and hardware to do things. You’re only as
good as the programs and systems you use.
In Matrix tests, the attribute portion of the test is replaced with a
program or Matrix attribute. For example, rather than using Gunnery
+ Agility to fire from an assault drone, you would use Gunnery +
Command if you were firing a mounted medium machine. All rules
that apply to attributes apply to programs or Matrix attributes instead.
This substitution only applies for Matrix actions or for targets entirely in the Matrix.
Interacting with a device would employ attributes normally, but using a device to interact
with a node or icon would require that a program or Matrix attribute be used instead.

So at this instance i would say that the FAQs answer is reliable(i bolded the relevant part)

[hobgoblin]

i think the faq came into being with SR4, and that SR4a have basically made the faq answer into rule.