CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[Abstruse]

For the record, in order for a slander or libel suit to be successful, the plaintiff must prove via preponderance of evidence:

1) The statements made were known by the defendant to be false.
2) A reasonable person may believe them to be true.
3) The defendant must have a personal reason to make the statements.
4) The plaintiff must have suffered damages or will potentially suffer damages from the actions of the plaintiff.

You can't be held liable for slander/libel if you believe you're telling the truth, if you're making up something that is obviously false (see Falwell v Flint for a well-publicized example of that one), if there is no personal gain or grudge for the statements (how National Enquirer and all the other tabloids can print whatever they want but Joan Rivers won her suit against a reporter as that reporter had a personal grudge), and you can't be held liable for damages if no damages were caused.

That's why libel and slander suits in the US are so rare. England's laws, however, make it much easier to collect damages. That's why some organizations *COUGH*SCIENTOLOGY*COUGH* love to sue in England when they know they couldn't win a case in the US.

[crizh]

No litigation against her claims no. But she does now work for the company with whom the litigation is against, and something like a defamation suit wouldn't come until after the initial litigation is resolved. Unless the situation comes up as part of the initial litigation which depending on how messy it gets, it is certainly possible since the allegation is relevant to the case.

Weeks and months went past after Jen made those accusations before said litigation was started. There was no reason not to rebut her claims in that time. As said claims were a PR disaster there was every reason to step up and actively refute them.

You are looking for reasons to excuse the behaviour. I have no doubt you are creative enough to find as many as you need to.

Nothing you have said in any way addresses the problem that I brought up, namely that you are just cherry-picking cases based on hindsight. Would you like me to bring up one of the many cases of African Americans lynched in the South for supposed infractions of the social order?

Did many of these lynch mobs insist on long periods of inaction because the facts weren't certain?

No?

In which case the problem that I have ignored I have ignored because it is not pertinent and is merely another example of you attempting to divert attention away from the Emperor's lack of apparel.

I didn't say LLC is a crook and we ought to string him up. I said it seems very likely that LLC is a crook and it would be prudent not to leave your wallet lying around in his house.

[Abstruse]

Weeks and months went past after Jen made those accusations before said litigation was started. There was no reason not to rebut her claims in that time. As said claims were a PR disaster there was every reason to step up and actively refute them.

What are the damages though? "A dozen or so people on a couple of gaming forums said they will never buy our products again, Your Honor. Sure, we've gotten preorders from half of them for our new products, but still, she owes us $200 in lost revenues!"

[Congzilla]

What are the damages though? "A dozen or so people on a couple of gaming forums said they will never buy our products again, Your Honor. Sure, we've gotten preorders from half of them for our new products, but still, she owes us $200 in lost revenues!"

And three IP's and whatever projected revenue they had for the remainder of their contracts.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And three IP's and whatever projected revenue they had for the remainder of their contracts.

The transition of the IP's was not a result of Jennifer exercising her right to leave the company, though.

Keep the Faith

[Congzilla]

You are looking for reasons to excuse the behaviour. I have no doubt you are creative enough to find as many as you need to.

I am just speculating. I though that is what this thread is about.

But going by what you just said, I am sure other people here are creative enough to make the other side look as bad as possible, maybe fraudulent even (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . Remember believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see.

[Congzilla]

The transition of the IP's was not a result of Jennifer exercising her right to leave the company, though.

Keep the Faith

And you are positive all of the different elements aren't interrelated how?

[Adam]

We at Posthuman had made the decision to sever our contract with Catalyst, based on the breaches of it, before we had any idea that Sandstorm existed or would exist. We were certain we would have multiple publishers interested in Eclipse Phase and our other projects, or that we could publish ourselves if we didn't find a partnership that we felt suitable.

[crizh]

I am just speculating. I though that is what this thread is about.

But going by what you just said, I am sure other people here are creative enough to make the other side look as bad as possible, maybe fraudulent even (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . Remember believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see.

Yes you are speculating.

Speculating, yet again, that if any doubt at all can be manufactured that we should all just sit here quietly and make like good little sheep regardless of the irreparable damage that might be going on.

Go back to sleep America, go back to sleep. Here is American Gladiators. Go back to sleep....

[Grinder]

I can access it, maybe they were just updating the site while you were trying.

There news for the day is "The following books have a Street Date of July 21st, 2010:

Shadowrun Corporate Guide ($29.99)"

This thread has reached a level of pointless insane "discussion" at which real news don't matter any more.

*mumbles* Co-mingling of money.... boycott.... copyright... law... fraud... support of unethical companies... jerking over pointless definitions... did I mention co-mingling of money...

[Congzilla]

We at Posthuman had made the decision to sever our contract with Catalyst, based on the breaches of it, before we had any idea that Sandstorm existed or would exist. We were certain we would have multiple publishers interested in Eclipse Phase and our other projects, or that we could publish ourselves if we didn't find a partnership that we felt suitable.

I honestly can't wait man. Looking for your game is how I found out about this mess in the first place, I have been reading the free pdf (very cool that you all did that btw) and I cannot wait to buy a hard copy. Hint hint, nudge nudge, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I have already stated that I am just speculating and talking out of my rear, I do know enough to attempt to make a judgment and I don't pretend to. I was just keeping this thread entertaining.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And you are positive all of the different elements aren't interrelated how?

See Adam's Post above...

Keep the Faith

[Congzilla]

This thread has reached a level of pointless insane "discussion" at which real news don't matter any more.

*mumbles* Co-mingling of money.... boycott.... copyright... law... fraud... support of unethical companies... jerking over pointless definitions... did I mention co-mingling of money...

ROFL it is titled 'Speculation', why would you have ever thought news would matter. Make a 'CGL News' thread because CGL certainty isn't updating theirs.

[Adam]

I honestly can't wait man. Looking for your game is how I found out about this mess in the first place, I have been reading the free pdf (very cool that you all did that btw) and I cannot wait to buy a hard copy. Hint hint, nudge nudge, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hard copy of the Eclipse Phase core rulebook is available: http://eclipsephase.com/eclipse-phase-reprint-shipping

I have already stated that I am just speculating and talking out of my rear, I do know enough to attempt to make a judgment and I don't pretend to. I was just keeping this thread entertaining.

Please bear in mind that for some of us, this business is how we pay our bills. Talking out of your rear _can_ have ill effects. Like, for example, distracting you from the fact that the EP core rulebook is available! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[SkepticInc]

I looked over at the summary thread for the CGL situation, but I was wondering if there was a TL;DR version for those of us with clinically short attention spans?

[Ancient History]

In a nutshell:

Loren L. Coleman is rumored to have taken over $726,000 in improper draws from InMediaRes Productions LLC over the past three years, which is responsible for putting them in a financial pickle.

IMR admits that there was some commingling of funds by Loren; LLC remains in charge of the company.

WildFire LLC (Cthulutech, Poo) and Posthuman Studios LLC (Eclipse Phase), ceased business relations with IMR because IMR wasn't upholding their end of things.

Several of IMR's employees and Shadowrun freelancers left, for various reasons, including long-standing failure to pay freelancers. Other freelancers withheld copyrights on their works until they were paid. All of this has considerably delayed the Shadowrun production schedule.

Three of IMR's creditors, including WildFire LLC, have filed for Ch. 7 bankruptcy against IMR - that's involuntary liquidation if it goes through. The case is currently scheduled to be heard before a judge on August 9th.

There are suggestions that IMR's ownership paperwork has not been correctly submitted.

The BattleTech and Shadowrun licenses from Topps were due to expire; IMR has negotiated an extension, which has not been signed yet.

[Adam]

Quick correx: Poo is WildFire's game, not Posthuman's. If we had designed it, we would have called it "Shit!" -- we prefer real swearing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Abschalten]

Quick correx: Poo is WildFire's game, not Posthuman's. If we had designed it, we would have called it "Shit!" -- we prefer real swearing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Is that a subtle indictment of the game's quality or just a simple statement of fact? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ancient History]

Fix'd.

[Cthulhudreams]

In a nutshell:

Loren L. Coleman is rumored to have taken over $726,000 in improper draws from InMediaRes Productions LLC over the past three years, which is responsible for putting them in a financial pickle.

The important thing to remember is 'Graphs prepared by the other owners of the company that supported this assertion have been leaked'

[Adam]

Statement of fact; I've yet to play the game.

[Abstruse]

The BattleTech and Shadowrun licenses from Topps were due to expire; IMR has negotiated an extension, which has not been signed yet.

Note that there has been no announcement as to how long the extension is. It could be through the con season or it could be for several years. No one outside those negotiating know the specific terms.

In IMR's defense, it should be noted that they have hired an independent auditor to come in and "clean house" and have gone through a single publisher/distributor so that they will no longer be in charge of stocking hardcopies. This may or may not have been mandated by Topps or one of the creditors.

Also, CGL has stated that checks have gone out to the freelancers. I haven't heard any confirmation as to whether or not that's actually happened.

(For the record, I'm not defending CGL, IMR, LLC, or anyone else...just felt that all the facts should be included in the Cliff's Notes version of events.)

[SkepticInc]

In a nutshell:

Loren L. Coleman is rumored to have taken over $726,000 in improper draws from InMediaRes Productions LLC over the past three years, which is responsible for putting them in a financial pickle.

IMR admits that there was some commingling of funds by Loren; LLC remains in charge of the company.

WildFire LLC (Cthulutech, Poo) and Posthuman Studios LLC (Eclipse Phase), ceased business relations with IMR because IMR wasn't upholding their end of things.

Several of IMR's employees and Shadowrun freelancers left, for various reasons, including long-standing failure to pay freelancers. Other freelancers withheld copyrights on their works until they were paid. All of this has considerably delayed the Shadowrun production schedule.

Three of IMR's creditors, including WildFire LLC, have filed for Ch. 7 bankruptcy against IMR - that's involuntary liquidation if it goes through. The case is currently scheduled to be heard before a judge on August 9th.

There are suggestions that IMR's ownership paperwork has not been correctly submitted.

The BattleTech and Shadowrun licenses from Topps were due to expire; IMR has negotiated an extension, which has not been signed yet.

So we have LLC (person: CEO of IMR;Alleged not-good person for having allegedly (with supporting documentation in the form of emails) "commingled" (read: stolen. accidental or not, this is still actionable theft [needs legal fact-check?]) 3/4 of a million dollars in assets that belonged to the company.

IMR and Topps and CGL are related how? And Wildfire, Posthuman Studios (not person LLC's), and freelancers owe fealty to whom during this period?

[Adam]

In IMR's defense, it should be noted that they have hired an independent auditor to come in and "clean house" and have gone through a single publisher/distributor so that they will no longer be in charge of stocking hardcopies.

They didn't stock hardcopies (except the Battleshop's stock) before -- they were at Alliance. Now they're at PSI.

(PSI _are_ awesome.)

[Abstruse]

They didn't stock hardcopies (except the Battleshop's stock) before -- they were at Alliance. Now they're at PSI.

(PSI _are_ awesome.)

I remember reading somewhere along the way that they had stocks for international and convention orders or something like that. I'm also brainfried from three vodkas and too many of these epic threads. Please note that Adam would know far more on this matter than I would, however, and I'll take his word over my own.