CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[Ancient History]

Well, you probably won't trust me when I tell you I heard 270 creditors then - although that counts freelancers, particularly BattleTech freelancers, who aren't going to fight for their checks.

[Endroren]

Frank Trollman? As a contrast to what I said about Tiger Eyes, due to Frank's "professionalism", here and elsewhere, he is someone I distrust highly as a source.

Actually (and I haven't seen the docos to confirm), I was under the impression this came from some of the documentation presented to the court on Friday. ie: "One of the creditors suing IMR", not just "one of the creditors" in general. Hopefully someone else can confirm that.

[tete]

Is Wildfire one of the 3 creditors suing? I just know they had to make threats in order for CGL to stop Cthuhlutech.

[Endroren]

Is Wildfire one of the 3 creditors suing? I just know they had to make threats in order for CGL to stop Cthuhlutech.

Yes, they are.

[Dread Moores]

Well, you probably won't trust me when I tell you I heard 270 creditors then - although that counts freelancers, particularly BattleTech freelancers, who aren't going to fight for their checks.

They aren't asking to get paid ever? That seems unusual.

Or was that meant as, some of them aren't requiring payment now or near future? I wasn't sure if that was something new out there.

[Congzilla]

They aren't asking to get paid ever? That seems unusual.

Or was that meant as, some of them aren't requiring payment now or near future? I wasn't sure if that was something new out there.

I think it means they have not yet begun withholding work until compensated.

[Cabral]

AH, its my knowledge you have not done anything so unseemly as to be cast in anywhere near the same light as Frank. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

They aren't asking to get paid ever? That seems unusual.

Or was that meant as, some of them aren't requiring payment now or near future? I wasn't sure if that was something new out there.

I believe that means that there are 270 entities who are owed money, with nothing said as to when that debt is due, just that there is some balance outstanding. In regards to the the Battletech authors, it is my understanding that they are unwilling to take actions, such as withholding copyright on their material, to ensure they get paid. In fact, some actively resent Shadowrun authors who have done so.

[deek]

In regards to the the Battletech authors, it is my understanding that they are unwilling to take actions, such as withholding copyright on their material, to ensure they get paid. In fact, some actively resent Shadowrun authors who have done so.

I can understand that resentment. I mean, if one of the co-authors to a book I had content in withheld their material and slowed/stopped the book from being printed, that could ruffle a lot of feathers. My mindset would be if I was okay with it going to print before I was paid, everyone else should be, too. No one really likes the guy(s) on the team that rock the boat, regardless if they are right or wrong...

[Endroren]

I can understand that resentment. I mean, if one of the co-authors to a book I had content in withheld their material and slowed/stopped the book from being printed, that could ruffle a lot of feathers. My mindset would be if I was okay with it going to print before I was paid, everyone else should be, too. No one really likes the guy(s) on the team that rock the boat, regardless if they are right or wrong...

Without rehashing the entire BT Freelancer vs SR Freelancer meme, this isn't what they're talking about. Two different groups working on different projects (although I guess that has changed a bit lately). The friction is unrelated to someone being ticked about a project getting delayed by someone else.

Also, I don't THINK any of the SR Freelancers who didn't pull copyright got annoyed with those who did. People gotta do what they gotta do. I support that. Some of those folks were owed a lot more money from a lot farther back than I was.

[SkepticInc]

Ok, so $750k wasn't stolen in one go, but what kind of company has enough liquid cash sitting in the bank that a $25k withdrawal can happen? Most companies (and people) with that much cash on hand would plow it into something less liquid like a CD or other investments. This sounds like there was money mismanagement going on even before there was embezzlement (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc. Please assume whatever hedging words needed to be said were said in their correct place).

And weren't writers not getting paid during the time where there was enough cash on hand for these withdrawals to take place? Doesn't that make their failure to settle their accounts payable a bit of a crime (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc...)?

[Lucyfersam]

Ok, so $750k wasn't stolen in one go, but what kind of company has enough liquid cash sitting in the bank that a $25k withdrawal can happen? Most companies (and people) with that much cash on hand would plow it into something less liquid like a CD or other investments. This sounds like there was money mismanagement going on even before there was embezzlement (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc. Please assume whatever hedging words needed to be said were said in their correct place).

And weren't writers not getting paid during the time where there was enough cash on hand for these withdrawals to take place? Doesn't that make their failure to settle their accounts payable a bit of a crime (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc...)?

Actually many companies use money market accounts for large amounts of cash, which traditionally earn some interest but are very liquid.

[SkepticInc]

Actually many companies use money market accounts for large amounts of cash, which traditionally earn some interest but are very liquid.

Yes, but can you make a $25k withdraw from a money market account? I think the graphs that were shown earlier were from a bank account, so LLC (person) would have had to sell off the money market account and then take the money if I understand it correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[deek]

Without rehashing the entire BT Freelancer vs SR Freelancer meme, this isn't what they're talking about. Two different groups working on different projects (although I guess that has changed a bit lately). The friction is unrelated to someone being ticked about a project getting delayed by someone else.

Also, I don't THINK any of the SR Freelancers who didn't pull copyright got annoyed with those who did. People gotta do what they gotta do. I support that. Some of those folks were owed a lot more money from a lot farther back than I was.

Ahh...okay, will I can understand that as well, at least from my experience, in a corporate setting. I work with three different business lines and they each have their own product development teams, sales, service, etc. And some of them are managed much better than others. Some "get it" more than others. Some have really solid and efficient processes while others are a bit of a clusterfuck and its surprising they make any profit.

So, when the poorly managed business line screws something up, others feel resentful. While they are the other side of the house, we all are still under the same roof and we wonder why they can't just get their act together and play like the rest of us.

In any case, it sucks when you are a "good worker" and have to deal with even the indirect effects of something like this...

[otakusensei]

Ok, so $750k wasn't stolen in one go, but what kind of company has enough liquid cash sitting in the bank that a $25k withdrawal can happen? Most companies (and people) with that much cash on hand would plow it into something less liquid like a CD or other investments. This sounds like there was money mismanagement going on even before there was embezzlement (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc. Please assume whatever hedging words needed to be said were said in their correct place).

And weren't writers not getting paid during the time where there was enough cash on hand for these withdrawals to take place? Doesn't that make their failure to settle their accounts payable a bit of a crime (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc...)?

Just look at the release schedule over the last three years. The money that Coleman took out of the company could have been going to write and print more books, which would have made the company even more money. Perhaps enough to warrant building Twisted Mustache Manor.

[Cabral]

Doesn't that make their failure to settle their accounts payable a bit of a crime (alleged, allegedly, accused, etc, etc...)?

To my knowledge, no. Failure to pay freelancers is a civil matter and not a crime. Failing to pay the IRS or misrepresenting taxable earnings, on the other hand, is a crime.

[SkepticInc]

Just look at the release schedule over the last three years. The money that Coleman took out of the company could have been going to write and print more books, which would have made the company even more money. Perhaps enough to warrant building Twisted Mustache Manor.

Do they have a contractual obligation to anyone such that actions that fail to bring the greatest company gain violate due diligence? They are private, but they have business relationships with groups like Posthuman Studios that were directly hurt by doing this, so they might be liable even if they somehow dodge embezzlement charges. Does anyone have a lawyer contact (or friend of a friend, nach) that might be able to verify or falsify that?

[Grinder]

Not again another discussion of a law-related question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Tiger Eyes]

Interestingly enough, it violates Washington state regulations governing LLCs for any member to withdraw money from an LLC if there are unpaid debts.

*note I am making a general statement after reading the publicly available statutes published on the State of Washington's website, and make no claims as to the bearing of said statutes to any thing factual or fictional...

[hermit]

Now that's interesting. What does the law propose as punishment for transgression of that law? And would that be a reason to get Loren L. oleman out of that company's operations?

[Kid Chameleon]

Without rehashing the entire BT Freelancer vs SR Freelancer meme, this isn't what they're talking about. Two different groups working on different projects (although I guess that has changed a bit lately). The friction is unrelated to someone being ticked about a project getting delayed by someone else.

Also, I don't THINK any of the SR Freelancers who didn't pull copyright got annoyed with those who did. People gotta do what they gotta do. I support that. Some of those folks were owed a lot more money from a lot farther back than I was.

It really seems to me to be sibling rivalry. The SR guys think the BT guys get preferential treatment, the BT guys think the SR guys get preferential treatment, the Leviathans guys just want to sit at the table with everyone else....

[Cardul]

It really seems to me to be sibling rivalry. The SR guys think the BT guys get preferential treatment, the BT guys think the SR guys get preferential treatment, the Leviathans guys just want to sit at the table with everyone else....

Well...hurry up and get Leviathans out! My group is chomping at the bit for it!

[Ancient History]

It really seems to me to be sibling rivalry. The SR guys think the BT guys get preferential treatment, the BT guys think the SR guys get preferential treatment, the Leviathans guys just want to sit at the table with everyone else....

Well, no. The SR people know that BattleTech gets the love and attention, because the head honchos like Randall Bills love BattleTech and wouldn't know Shadowrun from a hole in the ground. Which is also demonstrable by the general shrinking of the freelancer pool over time and the high turn-over on SR line developers.

Payment-wise, Shadowrun freelancers have (relatively recently) been getting paid and paid more promptly because they've been raising a stink about it and withholding copyright. This means there is the perception, at least in some cases, that some monies which would have gone to pay BattleTech writers or others was going to pay Shadowrun people instead (and indeed, the idea that some SR writers are being paid "out of turn" than others who wait patiently). Which is why Jason accused me of being greedy.

[Adam]

Well, no. The SR people know that BattleTech gets the love and attention, because the head honchos like Randall Bills love BattleTech and wouldn't know Shadowrun from a hole in the ground.

Without commenting on the general SR vs. BT issue: Randall works his ass off for everything Catalyst does and has ever done, including Shadowrun. Was his understanding of the game and setting as deep as Rob or Peter? No; but he brought a bunch of other stuff to the table.

[Ancient History]

I'll take your word for it, you worked with him closer and longer than I had to.

[tete]

Would Randall Bills need to know anything about Shadowrun? I mean thats what you hire people for in theory when your that high up. The head office doesn't need to know anything about packet management on the router they just have to hire a Network Admin/Engineer to handle it.