hacking cyberware Options

[ets]

Hi,
In a game I play, theres much chat about hacking cyberware... on this subject I got 2 questions...

1- Is it possible to hack cyberware?

2- if yes, whats the options to prevent hacking on cyberware?

If youd got the pages of the answers, if they exists, id be grateful if you could share with me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

thanks!

ETS

[Mr. Mage]

Don't have access to a book right now but I can try to help a bit.

As far as I know, hacking of a character's PAN (Personal Area Network) is possible and is pretty much just like hacking any other Node in the Matrix. Since most cyberware is hooked up to a character's PAN then theoretically you should be able to attack the Cyberware that way. For the most part I play either Street Sams or Mages and tend not to worry about trying to hack people so I'm not entirely up to date on how all the minutae of the Matrix works, but I believe that this is how my group's Technomancer would handle it.

As to protecting yourself? Well I'd say get a really strong firewall or however you would normally protect your PAN or any other Matrix Node.

[Yerameyahu]

Turn off the wireless, remember that peripheral nodes only have admin accounts (+6), etc.

As for what you can actually *do* with hacked cyberware, there's still some question of that in my mind. For me, I say you can send normal commands (reload, reboot, change mode, etc.), or steal traffic (sensors, etc.). It doesn't seem like there are clear rules for things like controlling someone's limb (whether against their will or not!); it's kind of an oversight.

[sabs]

Turn off the wireless, remember that peripheral nodes only have admin accounts (+6), etc.

As for what you can actually *do* with hacked cyberware, there's still some question of that in my mind. For me, I say you can send normal commands (reload, reboot, change mode, etc.), or steal traffic (sensors, etc.). It doesn't seem like there are clear rules for things like controlling someone's limb (whether against their will or not!); it's kind of an oversight.

could I unslve the limb? and then shut it down?
delete the sam's account from his own cyberlimb?.

[sabs]

Turn off the wireless, remember that peripheral nodes only have admin accounts (+6), etc.

As for what you can actually *do* with hacked cyberware, there's still some question of that in my mind. For me, I say you can send normal commands (reload, reboot, change mode, etc.), or steal traffic (sensors, etc.). It doesn't seem like there are clear rules for things like controlling someone's limb (whether against their will or not!); it's kind of an oversight.

could I unslve the limb? and then shut it down?
delete the sam's account from his own cyberlimb?.

[Mr. Mage]

Turn off the wireless

Wow...seriously? I work with computers all day and I actually missed that? wow....something's wrong with me here....

[Yerameyahu]

Theoretically, you can unslave the limb (if it is slaved) and/or shut it down. Hacked eyes could be Edited or otherwise messed with, a biomonitor could give false readings one way or the other, you could Encrypt various 'ware; all kinds of options. Players and GMs should work out what's fair/good for the plot/reasonable/etc.

It all depends on the network configuration, hacking/spoofing, account/command limits… there are a lot of variables, depending on what defensive preparations are in place.

[Nerdynick]

My two cents, but I don't think that deleting the owners account on a limb would actually stop them from using it due to the DNI functionality. As it is hardwired into the nervous system, you would have to sever that link as well. Even after that, I do not think it would be practical to control the limb on the fly. Moving your own arm is done through a lot of electrical signals. I think it would require either pre-programmed signals to send the arm or specialized software to send your signals to that arm (possibly yanked from your own cyberarm if you have one). Keep in mind that this is all just speculation, so none of it is hard rules.

Edit: One thing that many samurai do is skinlink everything. By sending signals over your bioelectric field instead of radiowaves, you can only be hacked if someone else with a skinlink is touching you, someone physically breaks open said piece of cyberware to hack it, or they hack into your commlink that is still broadcasting to the matrix and use that as a gateway into your PAN, and thus your cyberware

[Sengir]

Turn off the wireless, remember that peripheral nodes only have admin accounts (+6), etc.

Nope, the increased thresholds for admin accounts don't apply to peripheral nodes. It's somewhere in the BBB (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

@Topic: All active cyberware (ie. not bone lacing and the like) has a limited DNI for controlling it, described in detail in the Augmentation chapter on cyberware triggers. So toggling the wireless on your cyberarm is just as effortless as extending a spur.

[Yerameyahu]

Ah, yes, I misread the sentence in Unwired: "For this reason, they only have admin accounts, but these accounts do not receive the +6 threshold modifier for hacking (treat them as standard accounts)." My fault for skimming too fast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nerdynick, I agree: doing something to an account doesn't override DNI control (hopefully I didn't give that impression). In fact, my main misgiving with hacking cyberware is that I feel certain such controls are DNI *only*; e.g., motor control of a limb.

The problem with that is that limb-hacking is *so* cool and cyberpunk! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kumo]

2- if yes, whats the options to prevent hacking on cyberware?

1) Turn off wireless.
or
2) Install good firewall and even IC in your 'ware.
3) Kill enemy hacker first (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Q: to control one's cyberware (like, say, moves of cyberarm - not messing with files) hacker needs Command program and Cybertechnology skill, am I right?

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not sure, and I've never seen that any else is, either. After all, it doesn't seem like you can Command your *own* cyberlimbs remotely (even if you're a hacker), so why should a hostile hacker be able to? Like I said, it's very cyberpunk and cool, *but* it's a problem within the game.

[tagz]

Defense Options:
1) Encrypt the node
2) Turn off wireless
3) Do NOT slave to commlink. This provides a hacker in your commlink access to the limb. Run it set up so that the DNI and the limb only interface with eachother. This will however limit some options with it, but most are fluff.
4) Slave to commlink. Though I just said not to, you can do this and force an intruder to go through the commlink first. Then tricks 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 come into play and some of them can slow down or hurt a hacker, rather then him just moving on to something else.
5) High firewall
6) IC's running
7) databomb the commlink / cyber
8 ) have the node part of group hacker's network
9) set up a "safety protocols" file that list things such as "Do not strangle self", "do not punch self", etc. Don't write too much in there though since overuse could stop you from doing necessary actions (like bad wording could prevent you from injecting yourself with a needle based combat drug).
10) Run PAN in hidden mode

Attack Options:
1) Have an agent constantly running scan for nodes in the area, this will let the hacker quickly find PANs and Access IDs to hack/spoof.
2) Spoofing works very well with hacking cyberlimbs in combat, think simple commands such as "reboot", "shutdown", "run full diagnostics". this will typically work better then exploiting in and using command as it will be faster and harder to detect. Also avoids databombs and IC.
3) Direct control of the limb is harder likely as I think DNI would trump commands. However, one could use commands to turn off the DNI, allowing direct control
4) Have good decryption
5) Have good spoof
6) If the target has turned off their wireless you will not be able to spoof wirelessly. You'll need to hack into the master node if it's


I think most of this fits, but I may have a detail or two wrong.

[Yerameyahu]

Since someone else mentioned it, I'm not sure peripheral nodes can run IC. tagz, I don't mean you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not sure you can 'turn off' the cyberware's 'node-ness' (DNI-only), but you can turn off wireless (or physically disable it), and have no jacks. I think you'd still be vulnerable to those crazy hacker nanites, but who has those? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tagz]

Yeah, Yerameyahu, I don't know about IC's 100% on the cyber... or the databombs either.

The description if I recall is that they only run programs designed to do what the peripheral node is intended for. That kinda gives a fair amount of wiggle room.

[Garou]

To me, even with wireless turned on, a cyberlimb signal rating would be very low, akin 0 or 1. But if you can get close enough, i disagree that the DNI would override the admin connection. A doctor would have to deactivate the DNI so he could open the cyberlimb up with the patient still being conscious. And the doctor could do it much more easily if he could just acess the limb with an admin account.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, out ouf the box cyberware can be hacked, but I think that was just rather silly game design.

With SR4 they were aiming to give the hacker a bigger role in combat, so they enabled hacking cyberware just like everything else - and they gave cyberware wireless access, because "that'd be easier for the owner". While that's true for some civilian ware, it's nonsense for martially oriented implants, like on a street sam.

In practice, you could easily secure cyberware:
- Make sure it doesn't have wireless; you don't need it. DNI is all you need. If people can't connect to your ware, they can't hack it.
- If you want to connect cyberware to a PAN, make sure the PAN is secure, not connected to the outside world. Wires and skinlink are your friends here. It's not a bad idea to have a PAN dedicated to high-security systems and keep it off-Matrix, just like corporations do. There's really no need to link your cyberarm to your cellphone.

Against professionals, hacking cyberware is rather ludicrous. The role of a hacker in combat should be more a matter of jamming communications, interfering with drones and tacnets, than of hacking people's weapons and cyberware. Any challenging opponent could have easily made that impossible.

[Macavity]

The problem, especially at Convention games, is that GMs and other players alike assume that the base rules of SR4 apply - everyone has out-of-the-box cyberware and it's easily hackable. Nothing more annoying than playing a hacker and having an Otaku walk up to you and inform you that your eyes and cyberarm have been hacked and the GM informing you that there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm not an idiot. Why the frack would I leave any kind of wireless signal open from my ware without consciously enabling it for a specific purpose? I hack for a living, and you're telling me that any fool with a commlink walking past can hack me!?

Now, whenever I play (despite the fact that fixing your cyber should be easy) I inform the GM that all of my ware is connected via wires to one Commlink whose wireless has been ripped out by myself, and I carry a second Commlink that transmits wirelessly, with a plugable wire should I need to ever connect the two together.

This is also great costume wise, as it explains why I have wires running all over my body from every electronic device. Retro cyberpunk is especially cool in a room full of wireless iPod, iPhone, iEverything players.

As you can tell, this is one of my big gripes about SR4. I'll save the rest of the rant for an SR3/SR4 thread.

[tagz]

To me, even with wireless turned on, a cyberlimb signal rating would be very low, akin 0 or 1. But if you can get close enough, i disagree that the DNI would override the admin connection. A doctor would have to deactivate the DNI so he could open the cyberlimb up with the patient still being conscious. And the doctor could do it much more easily if he could just acess the limb with an admin account.

This is how I see it:

Both DNI and an admin account would have the ability to control movement, etc, and that control would be equal.

So long as the person with the DNI continues to THINK, it's sending new commands. So at most 1 IP later (and I think realistically it would be much faster then that) after the command to the limb the DNI will reissue it's own command. I think realistically a hacker would have to disable this or his commands would keep getting overwritten as soon as he finishes giving them.

That's how I see it.

[Hand-E-Food]

Nerdynick, I agree: doing something to an account doesn't override DNI control (hopefully I didn't give that impression). In fact, my main misgiving with hacking cyberware is that I feel certain such controls are DNI *only*; e.g., motor control of a limb.

The problem with that is that limb-hacking is *so* cool and cyberpunk! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The reason cyberlimbs have a wireless connection at all is for diagnostic and maintenance purposes. I reckon a limb could definitely be controlled, at least for basic movement, by Command.

To me, even with wireless turned on, a cyberlimb signal rating would be very low, akin 0 or 1. But if you can get close enough, i disagree that the DNI would override the admin connection. A doctor would have to deactivate the DNI so he could open the cyberlimb up with the patient still being conscious. And the doctor could do it much more easily if he could just acess the limb with an admin account.

See Signal Rating Table and Sample Devices Table in SR4A page 222. Cyberlimbs have a signal rating of 5 (4 km.) I find this strange given it's better than most commlinks and spends most of it's time disabled. Conversely, it only has a device rating of 1 to 3 (more for alphaware or better.)

[Yerameyahu]

No, cyberlimbs have a signal of 0 (RAW). Cyberlimb transceivers have a signal of 5, by that table.

[RunnerPaul]

See Signal Rating Table and Sample Devices Table in SR4A page 222. Cyberlimbs have a signal rating of 5 (4 km.)

Specifically "Cyberlimb Transcievers" have a Signal of 5. In previous editions, the cyberlimb transciever was an accessory that could be added to a cyberlimb - a built-in antenna that would allow the user to broadcast high rating Signal without needing bulky external gear. Unfortunately, the only place that term appears in 4th edition is that table itself, with no explanation as to why cyberlimbs shouldn't just count as Cyberware, which is listed at Signal 0.

To me that listing (as well as the Headware Transceivers at Signal 2) smacks of being an uncaught remnant from an earlier draft where they hadn't fully divorced high Signal rating from the bulk of the gear. Especially considering the line from p.102 of Unwired: "Most external implants (like cyberlimbs) only have wired connections, requiring the hacker to physically jack in to access the device," that suggests that cyberlimbs may not even have wireless.

[KarmaInferno]

Wow...seriously? I work with computers all day and I actually missed that? wow....something's wrong with me here....

There's quite a few players out there, me included, that have 'neo-luddite' characters.

They buy only equipment that has NO wireless capacity, or physically remove the wireless from stuff. Not just turning it off, completely removed. Everything that needs to communicate with each other is hard-wired. They may carry a commlink for communication, but it's not hooked to any of their other gear.

Yes, this means you have optic cable running through your clothing, but being completely immune to wireless hacking is worth it.



-karma

[Yerameyahu]

I'm immune to hacking without doing that. It's just called 'protagonist power'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Hand-E-Food]

Specifically "Cyberlimb Transcievers" have a Signal of 5. In previous editions, the cyberlimb transciever was an accessory that could be added to a cyberlimb - a built-in antenna that would allow the user to broadcast high rating Signal without needing bulky external gear. Unfortunately, the only place that term appears in 4th edition is that table itself, with no explanation as to why cyberlimbs shouldn't just count as Cyberware, which is listed at Signal 0.

To me that listing (as well as the Headware Transceivers at Signal 2) smacks of being an uncaught remnant from an earlier draft where they hadn't fully divorced high Signal rating from the bulk of the gear. Especially considering the line from p.102 of Unwired: "Most external implants (like cyberlimbs) only have wired connections, requiring the hacker to physically jack in to access the device," that suggests that cyberlimbs may not even have wireless.

Thank you for that! So a cyberlimb is unhackable unless you can hardwire into it? The only exception I could see is if a wireless access point was unknowingly installed in the cyberlimb. Could I assume all cyberlimb functions (including gun slides, etc.) are controlled by the nervous system rather than digital commands?

No, cyberlimbs have a signal of 0 (RAW). Cyberlimb transceivers have a signal of 5, by that table.

What is "RAW"? And for that matter, what is "WAR"? I've seen those terms around the forum but don't know what they refer to.