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> Armor stacking 4e?, this can't be right can it?
iategod
post Jun 17 2010, 10:37 PM
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imagine a troll adept with 9 body

Mystic armor lvl 6 [6/6]
+
Orthoskin rank 3 [3/3]
+
riot control armor+helmet [6/9][1/2]
+
Form fitting body armor full body suit [6/2]
+
PPP system forearm, vitals, shin, and leg/arm [1/5]


My math has to be off cause this tells me the total armor is 22/27 with no encumbrance.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 17 2010, 10:41 PM
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That's not even the record troll tank, yet. Go crazier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Besides, I think that's 23/27 that you've got there.
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Jaid
post Jun 17 2010, 10:43 PM
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yeah, where's the armored cyberlimbs?
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Mr. Mage
post Jun 17 2010, 10:43 PM
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Oh man...this reminds me of my Mutants and Mastermind character.... he can't actually be hurt damage wise unless someone who is 10 levels higher than him attacks him....

I'm going ot have to remember this setup you have for future reference....BWAHAHA!!!
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iategod
post Jun 17 2010, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 17 2010, 11:41 PM) *
That's not even the record troll tank, yet. Go crazier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Besides, I think that's 23/27 that you've got there.


it can get worse (better)?

I mean sure, if there's no limit to rarity, i can see a troll tank with military grade armor and upgrades, but.... short of a missile i don't think this one can get hurt much.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 17 2010, 10:46 PM
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Don't forget your anti-shock mod, or you'll still be 15S(e) against 22 dice to resist for each FA burst. That's 8 boxes of stun (plus net hits).

Actually, there was yet another thread about 'hurting a troll tank' last week, so you'll want to check that out.
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iategod
post Jun 17 2010, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 17 2010, 11:46 PM) *
Don't forget your anti-shock mod, or you'll still be 15S(e) against 22 dice to resist for each FA burst.



ah yes, non conductivity armor mods, then a quality or two. Might still be under 400bp to make.
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Nexushound
post Jun 17 2010, 10:51 PM
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Oi Chums,

The Meat Shield in my game has Titanium Bone Lacing, Dermal Plating III, Full Form Fit, Armor Jacket and a load of the PPP securetech gear. He can take Heavy Pistol rounds at point blank but if I play my baddies right and utilize the loss of Defensive dice I can take him out without having to use Subtactical Nukes.Though most of the time he is just unconcious as the damage rarely does physical. And honestly Autofire is the way to go. Even with all that armor he knows when to take cover.
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iategod
post Jun 18 2010, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 17 2010, 10:46 PM) *
Don't forget your anti-shock mod, or you'll still be 15S(e) against 22 dice to resist for each FA burst. That's 8 boxes of stun (plus net hits).

Actually, there was yet another thread about 'hurting a troll tank' last week, so you'll want to check that out.



I can't find the post, still looking

What's the p->stun conversion rule again?

Ya think platelet factories would work to combat stun damage? Or would just plain adding body be the best way to combat stun damage?
I mean with what i got up there, and bone density 4 (adds +4 to body for damage resist rolls) you'd be rolling 13 (body + bone density 4)+27 (impact armor) for stun resist damage rolls, right?
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Deadmannumberone
post Jun 18 2010, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (iategod @ Jun 17 2010, 03:37 PM) *
imagine a troll adept with 9 body

Mystic armor lvl 6 [6/6]
+
Orthoskin rank 3 [3/3]
+
riot control armor+helmet [6/9][1/2]
+
Form fitting body armor full body suit [6/2]
+
PPP system forearm, vitals, shin, and leg/arm [1/5]


My math has to be off cause this tells me the total armor is 22/27 with no encumbrance.


You're not getting an adept with mystic armor 6 and orthoskin/dermal plating or sheathing/bone lacing without initiation.
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Belvidere
post Jun 18 2010, 12:42 AM
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I've got a troll in the game I run that if he chose to abuse it could be nearly unstoppable.
Customized Cyber Chest, 15 body
Custom Cyber Arms, 15 body each
Custom Cyber Legs, 15 Body each.
His natural Body of 10

All body added up gets 85 then divided down by 5 Gets you a 17 body.

Each Cyber Limb has full 4 armor. So 20 Armor there.
Plus Heavy Military grade Armor 16/14
Helmet +2/+2
Orthoskin maxed out. +3/+3
PPP Tech System(w/o helm). +2/+4

So in the end its...
Body: 17/17
Cyberlimb Armor: 20/20
Heavy Military Armor(With Helm): 18/16
Orthoskin: +3/+3
PPP Tech: +2/+4
Troll Natural:+1/+1
Toughness3: +3/+3
Bone density 4: +4/+4
So... 68/68

I may have done some division wrong here with the cyberlimbs. Cybergear's never been my forte. And this was all just out of core and arsenal. If I squeezed somewhere else I could probably get more. Oh and this is taking into account that the character has all qualities to reduce essence costs and they're all deltaware.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 18 2010, 12:49 AM
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@iategod, don't forget it's -half Impact armor. Figuring 1 hit per 3 resist dice, you need 45 dice (inc. nonconductivity). But, again, there are a number of other things besides S&S that we talked about in the other thread. Toxins, screechers, etc.
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Tyro
post Jun 18 2010, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (Belvidere @ Jun 17 2010, 05:42 PM) *
I've got a troll in the game I run that if he chose to abuse it could be nearly unstoppable.
Customized Cyber Chest, 15 body
Custom Cyber Arms, 15 body each
Custom Cyber Legs, 15 Body each.
His natural Body of 10

All body added up gets 85 then divided down by 5 Gets you a 17 body.

<snip>

I may have done some division wrong here with the cyberlimbs. Cybergear's never been my forte. And this was all just out of core and arsenal. If I squeezed somewhere else I could probably get more. Oh and this is taking into account that the character has all qualities to reduce essence costs and they're all deltaware.

Cyberlimbs replace attributes. You wouldn't use your natural body at all - you'd end up with 15, not 17.
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Cardul
post Jun 18 2010, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (iategod @ Jun 17 2010, 07:09 PM) *
What's the p->stun conversion rule again?



If the damage value does not exceed his armour, any damage he takes is converted to Stun.I think Trauma Damper is what is used
to make the stunn less of an issue...however, unless he has enviro sealing, I would just use Neurostun gas, and if he does have
enviro sealing, that is what the HTRT's Mage with Stun bolt is for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Summerstorm
post Jun 18 2010, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE (Belvidere @ Jun 18 2010, 02:42 AM) *
Some stuff...

Ugh... Well, yes there can be some high dicepools. But what you have build there goes not only against common sense, it goes against rules as well.

First: How do you get an average body of 17 when no value is higher than 15? Easy answer: You don't.

Second: Orthoskin and Bone density: Do no work on/in cyberlimbs. (It is stated that nothing with essence costs can be used with cyberlimbs. That is what the cyberarmor is for.) Of course one could allow fraction of it to work in the torso/skull.

Rest seems good. All we need now is to have the Pain Editor so he will stay on target forever, and it is the terminator. Maybe some healing nanites to fix some things on the go *g*
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Belvidere
post Jun 18 2010, 01:03 AM
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QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Jun 17 2010, 07:00 PM) *
Ugh... Well, yes there can be some high dicepools. But what you have build there goes not only against common sense, it goes against rules as well.

First: How do you get an average body of 17 when no value is higher than 15? Easy answer: You don't.

Second: Orthoskin and Bone density: Do no work on/in cyberlimbs. (It is stated that nothing with essence costs can be used with cyberlimbs. That is what the cyberarmor is for.) Of course one could allow fraction of it to work in the torso/skull.

Rest seems good. All we need now is to have the Pain Editor so he will stay on target forever, and it is the terminator. Maybe some healing nanites to fix some things on the go *g*


Like I said, cyberlimbs aren't quite my forte. Never mess with them. I like my essence thank you very much. Still we're looking at around 60 dice.... that's scary as hell.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 18 2010, 01:03 AM
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I still don't think Pain Editor stops physical overflow.

I feel like no one's gonna seek out the last thread, so I recall we also talked about freeze foam, Arcane Arrester to stop the stunbolts, spirit powers like Accident, um… oh, not having a combat-based storyline (ha!), etc.
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Summerstorm
post Jun 18 2010, 01:06 AM
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Of course it doesn't but it helps getting the needed damage to stop "IT" from like 9-10 boxes to 25+ *g*. HUGE difference. Even the first 2-3 stunbolts may not slow him down.
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iategod
post Jun 18 2010, 03:51 AM
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QUOTE (Cardul @ Jun 18 2010, 01:57 AM) *
If the damage value does not exceed his armour, any damage he takes is converted to Stun.I think Trauma Damper is what is used
to make the stunn less of an issue...however, unless he has enviro sealing, I would just use Neurostun gas, and if he does have
enviro sealing, that is what the HTRT's Mage with Stun bolt is for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


I don't understand. So if I get shot at (3firearms +3agility=6) and the thug gets 3hits with a 5p weapon. I don't get any hits on my opp roll. I then roll for resisted damage (body(9)+armor(23)+bone density(4)=36. I get 9 hits. So I shouldn't take any damage right? So when does the splash over stun damage come into play?


On a side note, the riot helmet has a gas mask so it should be immune to gas (core book 4e errata). If not I was thinking of taking internal air tank but it'll bite into the essence/magic.

And for those who think I'd need initiation, I didn't need to that I can tell. Got magic to 6 and taking the 2 bioware I had 4 left. Mystic armor lvl6 only needs 3. So I went with penetrating strike lvl3 and attrib boost lvl1.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 18 2010, 03:57 AM
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P>S happens when you *do* damage boxes from an attack, but the modified DV is *less* than your modified armor (just armor). So, guy with 8/6 gets shot by that 5P +3 net hits, mod DV 8 is not greater than* mod armor 8; he resists 8 boxes of Stun (*not* using Body, remember).

*I may be wrong in this example, because I can't recall who wins ties. If the modified DV were 7, it'd be Stun for sure.

Don't forget that there are contact toxins, too. There's always another counter-counter-counter… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jaid
post Jun 18 2010, 04:05 AM
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QUOTE (iategod @ Jun 17 2010, 10:51 PM) *
I don't understand. So if I get shot at (3firearms +3agility=6) and the thug gets 3hits with a 5p weapon. I don't get any hits on my opp roll. I then roll for resisted damage (body(9)+armor(23)+bone density(4)=36. I get 9 hits. So I shouldn't take any damage right? So when does the splash over stun damage come into play?


On a side note, the riot helmet has a gas mask so it should be immune to gas (core book 4e errata). If not I was thinking of taking internal air tank but it'll bite into the essence/magic.

And for those who think I'd need initiation, I didn't need to that I can tell. Got magic to 6 and taking the 2 bioware I had 4 left. Mystic armor lvl6 only needs 3. So I went with penetrating strike lvl3 and attrib boost lvl1.

you cannot have a higher rating in any adept power than your magic rating.

and like i said, if you want it to get really ugly, you get a lot of armor out of cyberlimbs if you (ab)use them right.
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iategod
post Jun 18 2010, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 18 2010, 05:05 AM) *
you cannot have a higher rating in any adept power than your magic rating.

and like i said, if you want it to get really ugly, you get a lot of armor out of cyberlimbs if you (ab)use them right.



Oooohh
So I can only have it up to 4 cause that's what my magic is after essence costs. Draeg's character gen doesn't say anything bout that. That'll give me some points I can put into boost attrib or something to help with pain.

As for splash over, how much stun damage would the guy take? If the dv was 7 as you say, he would tar 1 stun damage?
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 18 2010, 04:20 AM
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Depends on the roll. All that happens is that P becomes S if the armor isn't beaten. So, uh, modified DV of 7 (5P/no AP gun +2 net hits) versus armor 8 does 7 boxes of Stun. Then, you resist with Willpower + Armor as normal.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 18 2010, 04:24 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 17 2010, 10:20 PM) *
Depends on the roll. All that happens is that P becomes S if the armor isn't beaten. So, uh, modified DV of 7 (5P/no AP gun +2 net hits) versus armor 8 does 7 boxes of Stun. Then, you resist with Willpower + Armor as normal.


Actually, Unless Specifically Indicated, you resist Stun Damage with Body + Armor (Page 162 of SR4A, Damage Resistance Tests)...

Just Sayin...

Keep the Faith
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 18 2010, 04:27 AM
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Oh? Hmm, how about that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It says 'often used', but that's so vague. I must've misread.

Well, anyway, the point is that you resist the exact same damage as it would have been, except now it's Stun.
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