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> Dinosaurs are from which Age?, Are dinosaurs canon?
TommyTwoToes
post Jun 18 2010, 04:25 PM
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Someone had posted about running theyr SR group through Jurassic Park (an idea which I plan on stealing) and that got me to wondering.
  1. What Age are the Dinos from?
  2. Do they even fit into Canon?
  3. Does the K-T boundary mark the emergence of Horrors and the end of an Age?


Now, depending on the answers... if they are from one of the magic ages, they could be para-critters. Clones of them (as in the JP storyline) would make para-critters right?

I was sort of envisioning that the Runners were hired to extract Nedry from the facility with his cargo of genetic material. They arrive just before the storm hits (and just after the bulk of the island staff leaves). but have to extract him, remain undiscovered by the remaining staff, and get him off the island after the storm.

Now I just need to work up some stats for the critters.
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Grinder
post Jun 18 2010, 04:26 PM
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Editet the topic title (the <fluff> brackets aren't needed and it's canon, not cannon).
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The Dragon Girl
post Jun 18 2010, 04:32 PM
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I'm really not sure, but my instincts say:
The first age. The second age would be when magic smacked the dinos and made the Dragons, who started recording history and the ages.
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nezumi
post Jun 18 2010, 04:34 PM
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The dinosaurs are from the fifth age. The Creationists were right.
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Mr. Mage
post Jun 18 2010, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Jun 18 2010, 12:34 PM) *
The dinosaurs are from the fifth age. The Creationists were right.

Are they though? Doesn't Earthdawn take place in the fourth age? so if Dinos are fifth age that would mean metahumankind came first. But then again, Shadowrun already doesn't make sense half the time so why not?

This thread definitely caught my eye since just last night I petitioned my DM in DnD to have T-Rex as my mount....he didn't go for it...
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Traul
post Jun 18 2010, 05:12 PM
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Don't know from age they are, but they die to LMG FA bursts as anything else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Mr. Mage
post Jun 18 2010, 05:25 PM
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OK, now all I can think about is a dinosaur Cyber Sammy....dual wielding Assault Rifles
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Samoth
post Jun 18 2010, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE (Mr. Mage @ Jun 18 2010, 06:25 PM) *
OK, now all I can think about is a dinosaur Cyber Sammy....dual wielding Assault Rifles

Slap some dikote on that dino and we're in business!
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TommyTwoToes
post Jun 18 2010, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Jun 18 2010, 11:34 AM) *
The dinosaurs are from the fifth age. The Creationists were right.



I was almost (and I shudder to think it) going to go with the creationists (ok the super, ultra, off to one side creationists) are right in that there were no dinosaurs, that fosils are all a trick. Maybe a trick to help keep metahumanity focused on science as the answer rather than magic. But, nah its more fun to have dinosaurs. Especially physad raptors or some such.
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Dr.Rockso
post Jun 18 2010, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (Traul @ Jun 18 2010, 12:12 PM) *
Don't know from age they are, but they die to LMG FA bursts as anything else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Not if they are...WARFORM dinos!!1! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)
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Drace
post Jun 18 2010, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (The Dragon Girl @ Jun 18 2010, 11:32 AM) *
I'm really not sure, but my instincts say:
The first age. The second age would be when magic smacked the dinos and made the Dragons, who started recording history and the ages.


If you want to keep all of the SR world into ages, this would be your best bet, but if you go by the game fluff, the dinosaurs existed in none of them.

The first age started Mar 1 23615 BC, while dinosaurs lived until roughly the end of the Cretaceous period, around 65 million years ago. I dont want to do the math for it right now, but that would be in the negative double digits for what world they existed in (If anyone really wants to try and figure it out, here is the link to the formula for this, at the end of the page)

But, a mystic adept raptor specializing in illusions and speed would be a great prime runner. Doesnt even have to be sentient really, just make the abilities act more like powers and let them hunt the players down and use other "lesser" raptors to be bait/cannonfodder
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TommyTwoToes
post Jun 18 2010, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Jun 18 2010, 12:29 PM) *
Not if they are...WARFORM dinos!!1! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

Damn, I want to rig a T-Rex biodrone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)
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Mr. Mage
post Jun 18 2010, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (Drace @ Jun 18 2010, 01:33 PM) *
But, a mystic adept raptor specializing in illusions and speed would be a great prime runner. Doesnt even have to be sentient really, just make the abilities act more like powers and let them hunt the players down and use other "lesser" raptors to be bait/cannonfodder

I...Gah...Eh...wha?

That is perhaps one of the most intriguing ideas I have read on this forum....kind of like Jurassic Park meets Most Dangerous Game meets Lord of the Rings...
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Doc Chase
post Jun 18 2010, 05:47 PM
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Wouldn't a raptor have to be sentient to be a Mystic Adept?
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Drace
post Jun 18 2010, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jun 18 2010, 01:47 PM) *
Wouldn't a raptor have to be sentient to be a Mystic Adept?


I meant if you couldnt find powers that did what you want, you could just use the mystic adept quality and do it (Not RAW, but I personally think F@%k RAW most of the time). Or you could have them be sentient, but since they are clones from something millions of years old, their sentiency is so alien to us it doesnt seem sentient (Like horrors, insect spirits, shedim etc).
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MJBurrage
post Jun 18 2010, 06:11 PM
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The "Age of Dragons" (now known as the "Second World") was from c. 18500 BC to c. 13400 BC

Earthdawn (also known as the "Fourth World") was from c. 8200 BC to 12 August 3113 BC

Based on those dates calendar makers such as the Mesoamericans were able to accurately predict magic's return on 24 December 2011.

As I recall, Earthdawn books implied that dragons were created by horrors in the age of magic before the "Age of Dragons" (i.e. the Zeroth World).

This leaves unaddressed in canon what came before, I can see three options:
  1. The world was only created at the beginning of the Zeroth World, and hence c. 28,700 BC. Dinosaurs remains are actually dead dragons or horrors. Carbon dating etc. is wrong because of the cycles of magic.
  2. The Zeroth World was the first cycle of magic, caused by the Horrors finding Earth. History before c. 28,700 BC is what science tells us.
  3. The magic cycles go back for much longer than described. The Zeroth World is just the oldest cycle documented in any fashion. Dinosaurs existed when carbon dating says they did but dealing with their own cycles of magic. Perhaps there were even Sapient cultures back then unknown even to the Dragons.
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Mr. Mage
post Jun 18 2010, 06:13 PM
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oh...jeez...I think I'll just stick to the 6th world thank you very much....
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TommyTwoToes
post Jun 18 2010, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Drace @ Jun 18 2010, 01:56 PM) *
I meant if you couldnt find powers that did what you want, you could just use the mystic adept quality and do it (Not RAW, but I personally think F@%k RAW most of the time). Or you could have them be sentient, but since they are clones from something millions of years old, their sentiency is so alien to us it doesnt seem sentient (Like horrors, insect spirits, shedim etc).

Now to make mentor spirits for the Raptor shaman......hmm they should have somehting named Hunger for a mentor spirit.
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Drace
post Jun 18 2010, 06:49 PM
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I honestly doubt that there was no world before the first and second, its just that the oldest creatures to survive the horrors (dragons) were born in the 2nd world, and since they are the first to record history and continue to live, they called their world the second since they knew it had to exist first.

For all we know, the 6th world isnt the 6th but the 1000th or something like that, its just been recorded as the 6th, since the dragons only existed for 5 and are the oldest sentient creatures. That we know of.........

And who knows, maybe there was no comet or ice age that wiped the dino's out, the horrors just had a large, scaly buffet.

And Dinosaur totems? Could be cool. Would they be based of specific dinosaurs? Just one general totem like with dragons? Hmmmmm......
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 18 2010, 06:54 PM
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Personally as I've said elsewhere I'm very happy with Earthdawn not being the end all be all of answers about the Shadowrun comsos. I'm perfeclty fine with dinosaurs being from a previous to the first world age. I'm also fine with the Draconic creation myth being either wrong or a straight up lie.
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Caadium
post Jun 18 2010, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 18 2010, 10:11 AM) *
The "Age of Dragons" (now known as the "Second World") was from c. 18500 BC to c. 13400 BC

Earthdawn (also known as the "Fourth World") was from c. 8200 BC to 12 August 3113 BC

Based on those dates calendar makers such as the Mesoamericans were able to accurately predict magic's return on 24 December 2011.

As I recall, Earthdawn books implied that dragons were created by horrors in the age of magic before the "Age of Dragons" (i.e. the Zeroth World).

This leaves unaddressed in canon what came before, I can see three options:
  1. The world was only created at the beginning of the Zeroth World, and hence c. 28,700 BC. Dinosaurs remains are actually dead dragons or horrors. Carbon dating etc. is wrong because of the cycles of magic.
  2. The Zeroth World was the first cycle of magic, caused by the Horrors finding Earth. History before c. 28,700 BC is what science tells us.
  3. The magic cycles go back for much longer than described. The Zeroth World is just the oldest cycle documented in any fashion. Dinosaurs existed when carbon dating says they did but dealing with their own cycles of magic. Perhaps there were even Sapient cultures back then unknown even to the Dragons.


As the one whose runners are currently gathering the materials to open Jurassic Park, some of these intrigue me as added "Wha!?!" factor. I don't think #1 would be true because what would kill off a planet of Horrors? Maybe a Giant asteroid did it, I wouldn't think it would be any large magic as that would fuel the Horrors instead of eliminating them, I just don't know.

Depending on how the players enjoy the Jurrassic Park, and what shape the party is in when they are done, perhaps that won't be a finale, but a gateway into some big SR history with the Horrors and such.
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Saint Sithney
post Jun 18 2010, 07:48 PM
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Oh, man, but how awesome would it be for the Dinosaurs to be Horror-forms?

Somebody recreates them and then their massive bodies and tiny minds are like empty and waiting vehicles for malevolent spirits! Suddenly, evil magic killing machines go crazy on the tourists!
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Dumori
post Jun 18 2010, 07:57 PM
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I'll keep my dinos in biotech labs being made in to chimeric and warform cirters. How about a T-rex cyber zombie???
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sabs
post Jun 18 2010, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 18 2010, 07:54 PM) *
Personally as I've said elsewhere I'm very happy with Earthdawn not being the end all be all of answers about the Shadowrun comsos. I'm perfeclty fine with dinosaurs being from a previous to the first world age. I'm also fine with the Draconic creation myth being either wrong or a straight up lie.


YOu do know that Earthdawn was created from the notes about the pre-history of Shadowrun they came up with when doing Shadowrun 1st Edition
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 18 2010, 08:24 PM
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Yep, that doesn't make it any less silly.
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