Dinosaurs are from which Age?, Are dinosaurs canon? Options

[Lucyfersam]

I tend to go with dino's existing before the first age of magic and the creation of dragons... there is also at least 1 shadowtalk reference to dragon fossils dating back older than 1 million years, implying history as presented in Earthdawn may be be inaccurate. Who knows, Dinosaurs could have been the template from which the first dragon's were created.

-Lucy

[Draco18s]

The "Age of Dragons" (now known as the "Second World") was from c. 18500 BC to c. 13400 BC

Earthdawn (also known as the "Fourth World") was from c. 8200 BC to 12 August 3113 BC

So by extrapolation (and some rounding error) the dinosaurs died out at the end of the -12745th Age (that's a negative sign people. Negative twelve-thousand, seven-hundred, and fourty-fifth).

[Mr. Mage]

So by extrapolation (and some rounding error) the dinosaurs died out at the end of the -12745th Age (that's a negative sign people. Negative twelve-thousand, seven-hundred, and fourty-fifth).

I don't know if I should applaud or pity you for actually going and figuring that out...

[Draco18s]

I don't know if I should applaud or pity you for actually going and figuring that out...

Neither. It's simply math.

65000000 divided by 5100.

[KarmaInferno]

Damn, I want to rig a T-Rex biodrone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B072j-E3I




-karma

[Mr. Mage]

Neither. It's simply math.

65000000 divided by 5100.

This is true, but I was implying more that you sounded (to me at least) as if you were giving a lecture about the history of Dinosaurs in relation to the age of Magic....

Bu then again, I tend to talk about Shadowrun on this forum as if it were real too (or at least that I wish it were...sigh)
So guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite...hehe aren't we all? I suppose the way I said it didn't quite come out how it sounded in my head.

Anyhow, -12745? That is a pretty big (or small) number there....

[MJBurrage]

I tend to go with dino's existing before the first age of magic and the creation of dragons... there is also at least 1 shadowtalk reference to dragon fossils dating back older than 1 million years, implying history as presented in Earthdawn may be be inaccurate. Who knows, Dinosaurs could have been the template from which the first dragon's were created.

That assumes that dating methods are accurate in a world with magic cycles. (unaddressed in canon as far as I know)

[Saint Sithney]

That assumes that dating methods are accurate in a world with magic cycles. (unaddressed in canon as far as I know)

I don't know what ^that^ assumes though. Some sort of magic which uniformly speeds up the rate of radioactive decay on a universal level?

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yep, that doesn't make it any less silly.

You mean awesome, not silly right?

Because earthdawn is awesome.

[MJBurrage]

I don't know what ^that^ assumes though. Some sort of magic which uniformly speeds up the rate of radioactive decay on a universal level?

Could be. I could see two takes:

1. Magic has no effect on the science underling dating methods, and the world is much, much older than recorded draconic history.
2. Just like nuclear bombs have post awakening issues, things we consider fundamental or constant are also effected by magic.
   Perhaps radioactive decay etc. is sped up by ambient magic. Not enough that the Sixth world has noticed yet, but magic levels are still low.

[Sengir]

That assumes that dating methods are accurate in a world with magic cycles. (unaddressed in canon as far as I know)

And since so far the question whether magic influences radioactive decay has not been addressed, the answer should be no. Changing decay rates would have far too many consequences to be something which can be added to the universe retroactively...that doesn't mean it's impossible, just unlikely as long as decently sane persons are involved in making the storyline (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Caadium]

Okay, I'll admit I never really got into ED (mostly becaue I hated the mechanics). However, where is the info coming from that an age is ~5100 years? Given the ebb of Magic, isn't it possible that the 2nd Age was much further back than I've seen posted above? Or is there somthinhg that has concretely dated it that I don't know about.

[stevebugge]

If you want to keep all of the SR world into ages, this would be your best bet, but if you go by the game fluff, the dinosaurs existed in none of them.

The first age started Mar 1 23615 BC, while dinosaurs lived until roughly the end of the Cretaceous period, around 65 million years ago. I dont want to do the math for it right now, but that would be in the negative double digits for what world they existed in (If anyone really wants to try and figure it out, here is the link to the formula for this, at the end of the page)

Certainly dinosaurs could have existed 65 million years ago, the Manacycle might have been going by then too (speculation) but based on the Earthdawn Magic Fluff the fact that Dinosaurs were not Name Givers pretty much means that they can live 65 million years ago without being part of an age.

The Beginning of the first age lines up pretty nicely with the supposed dawn of Humanity

[Daylen]

Dragons killed the Dinos and have been around since, but haven't told anyone.

[crash2029]

From what I have been able to gather from this discussion the introduction of sapient species in SR/ED seems to coincide with the introduction of the earliest forms of Homo Sapien Sapien. Since humans recognizable as such have been around for only a few hundred thousand years. The Cenozoic era, specifically the later Pleistocene epoch, seems to be the location of most of ED's history/pre-history. When you consider that the Pleistocene epoch by itself was ~2.589 * 10^6 years long, and dinosaurs as we typically define them were extant during the Mesozoic era (251-65.5 million years BCE) it seems that there is plenty of time for them to occur. As a theory, what if the mass extinction event that ended the dinosaur era was Horror-related? Perhaps the scourge is what killed them off and radically altered the Earth's cliamte. The altered climate and lack of huge predators would naturally lead to more a homonid-friendly evolutionary stage. Horrors in pre-history would also account for the odd fact that nearly every culture on the planet has similar myths of monsters.

[Martin_DeVries_I...]

Guys n' gals, we already know what happened to the dinosaurs. As you can see, neither Horrors nor dragons were involved.

[Mesh]

The earliest archaeological records of mystic adept sentient velociraptors are found in a cave in southern France. Cave paintings (believed to be over 50,000 years old) clearly show a hot Lone Star officer in an armored bikini using the velociraptors as mounts only the raptors had chromed out cyber-forehead drills and crude sapphire belly button rings.*

Mesh

* Reference from p103 Seattle Sourcebook 7201

[Macavity]

OK, now all I can think about is a dinosaur Cyber Sammy....dual wielding Assault Rifles

T’skrang seem obviously descended from several species of Dinosaur, so I would say that Dinosaurs would have to be from at least the 3rd Age, if not much further back. There is nothing of course stating that the T'skrang weren't hold-overs from a previous Age - such as the 2nd Age - whom made it through the low-ebb in magic to the 4th world - in which case their Saurian ancestors could have existed before the cycle of Ages began.

T'skrang cyber sammy I can see! Though more likely to be a T'skrang Gunslinger Adept.

[Snow_Fox]

it's canon, not cannon).

something 60 feet long with teeth as big as my hand comes charging at me, and I want a cannon around!

[Snow_Fox]

more approriately the more intelligent bipedal dino went into hybernation when the moon entered earth's orbit around the Eocean(sp?) era. They occassionally wake up when disturbed by some deep drilling corp and tend to be very grouchy .

[Stormdrake]

All just throw this bit in. The cycle that Earth Dawn was part of (the 4th world) was longer than the norm. Longer than 5100 years at least. This comes from Earth Dawn canon. It was suggested that the down cycle (5th world) was as long or even longer than the 4th world. That was was bandied about back in 1st edition but I don't know if it ever made it into canon. Any one else remember this?

[Stormdrake]

more approriately the more intelligent bipedal dino went into hybernation when the moon entered earth's orbit around the Eocean(sp?) era. They occassionally wake up when disturbed by some deep drilling corp and tend to be very grouchy .

Doctor Who reference? Gotta love the Doc. Who by the way is a mystic adept, lol

[Snow_Fox]

Doctor who? I was just refering to something I encountered the last time I was on Wenley Moor.

[Drace]

Okay, I'll admit I never really got into ED (mostly becaue I hated the mechanics). However, where is the info coming from that an age is ~5100 years? Given the ebb of Magic, isn't it possible that the 2nd Age was much further back than I've seen posted above? Or is there somthinhg that has concretely dated it that I don't know about.

Its using the mesoamerican calender that gave birth to the mayan calender. Its mentioned canon a few times by Ehran I think aswell as one of the greats. (really wish I had my books with me right now......)

Now all I want to do is find a way to bring in dinosaurs for my game, or have characters surge to dino-hybrids......

[Snow_Fox]

A Jurassic park type situation is probably a better bet-keep it scientific or at least psuedo-scientific