 Grim Theory, Ideas on off-limit or much-needed spells |
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 Feb 28 2004, 02:43 AM
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#51
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818  |
I think food passes my sense test because it's a common substance that all living things instinctively understand. Creatures have no real conception of gold- that's a created concept. Munitions are the same, only moreso.
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Feb 28 2004, 02:50 AM
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#52
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Magic does not work on molecular complexity. If it did, toxic wave would be about 24 drain levels higher than an area effect metal manipulation.
Magic does work on conceptual complexity. "Food" is an instinctive concept, APDS is not. Much like how the OR is based not on the molecular complexity, but on a level of how far removed it is from nature. Create APDS could be feasible, but the TN would be at least 12 without any condition to insure it is the proper size for the gun. |
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Feb 28 2004, 02:57 AM
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#53
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
BLAST! The horror-lover agrees with me!
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Feb 28 2004, 03:07 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
RE: Mental Adepts and Psionist rules upgrades, allow me to whore out my shit agian...
Mental Adepts A stab as improving psionists... and other stuff |
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Feb 28 2004, 09:40 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 131 Joined: 1-April 02 From: Finland, Iisalmi Member No.: 2,497 |
Make Psionists Aspected i.e. they only cost 25 BP and get 35 power points at chargen. Let them astrally project though, they really don't need more restrictions. Remember, they can't use any foci and cannot take any "mystical" geasa.
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Feb 28 2004, 05:14 PM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
Here's an idea: to make up for the fact that they can't cast some types of spells, give them the Centering metamagic for free and without the need for a linked artistic skill. This is justified by the idea that they can make their powers work better by focusing all the energies of their mind...
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Feb 28 2004, 05:16 PM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897 |
But only if they accept the chant geas. Every time they want to focus their psionic powers, they must intone, "Your mind is an open book to me!!!"
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Feb 28 2004, 10:42 PM
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#58
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Seriously though, "Mind Bullets" should be a new spell made exclusively for Psionists.
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Feb 28 2004, 11:08 PM
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#59
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I disagree with the idea of buffing up the Psionicist. They are gimped for a reason.
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Feb 28 2004, 11:16 PM
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#60
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
It's time for a new age... the Psion age of Shadowrun. A world of 1-900 faux-Jamaican tarot readers. :P
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Feb 28 2004, 11:26 PM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
What specifically? |
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Feb 28 2004, 11:39 PM
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#62
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
"Psionics" in the SR universe are simply magicians operating under a self-imposed handicap that automatically limits and dilutes their true potential. Not that I necessarily agree with that reasoning, but it's there. -Siege |
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Feb 28 2004, 11:45 PM
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#63
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Instead of adapting to Magic, they attempt to force Magic to fit into their limited viewpoint. I can see lowering the chargen cost of Psionicists to that of Aspected Mages (but not the extra spell points, as they still have Conjuring ability), but that's about it. I definitely do not see the rationale for giving any Awakened spellcaster unique spells. |
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Feb 28 2004, 11:48 PM
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#64
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Instead of unique spells to classes, SR is rather flexible in allowing players to develop unique spells of their own.
-Siege |
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Feb 28 2004, 11:56 PM
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#65
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
True, but said spell is not strictly limited to that spellcaster and his fellow cronies. Mages of other traditions are free to also invent the very same spell. |
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Feb 29 2004, 12:23 AM
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#66
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
In their own fashion and form -- which I don't think is a bad thing. Arguably, wizards in that evil game that will not be mentioned by name could invent spells that duplicated some effects of clerics or druids -- whether you pound a head into the ground with a hammer, 2x4 or a big boot -- the ultimate effect is still the same. :grinbig: -Siege |
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Feb 29 2004, 03:24 AM
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#67
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
maybe give us a official gecko crawl physical adept power or maybe give us the ability to turn some spells into powers (only with touch or self ranges only maybe). that way we can have physical adepts preforming healing hands and wall crawling while avoiding the messy bits of trowing around fireballs and lightning bolts.
i would allso like to see the return of the astral adept. i would allso do a small rewrite on the workings of the anchoring metamagic. give a item charges so that you can say stack 3-4 armor spells onto a pin, tie in the detection spell and be ready to roll. that or maybe say that instead of it being one time a sustainable spell is in fact triggerd the moment its cast into the item (caster takes drain at that moment) but is then suspended inside the anchor. now a detection spell or other triggering condition will bring it out of suspension or back into suspension (the detection spell not detecting = spell suspended). this should only work on reusable anchors tho. this way it brings back some of the power of old and makeing it something else then a delayed/mundane sustaining foci. |
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Feb 29 2004, 03:27 AM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I don't even object to the idea of adepts casting spells, but the cost should be prohibitive enough to keep physical adepts from crossing into Physical Mages.
The pricing should be something like: 1 magic point per rating of spell. So if the physical adept has an overwhelming urge to throw a Force 6 manabolt, it'll cost him 6 points of Magic. A one trick pony, but it has some interesting applications. Or vary the cost depending on factors -- affect self only, .5/rating, affect others 1/rating. -Siege |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:01 AM
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#69
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:09 AM
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#70
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Yep -- I remember the knacks, but I'd like to see it make an official supplement. And I know a fair number of GMs would be really wary of adepts picking up spells without a sufficiently expensive cost. -Siege |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:16 AM
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#71
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Since any combat spell (or heal or treat) must be bought at the max drain level, that restricts a knack adept to mostly support spells. Some spell effects seem too potent for adepts, but GM has the veto right on any player so that is not a real problem.
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Feb 29 2004, 04:28 AM
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#72
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I'm right there with you -- but I'm reasonably certain most GMs would be concerned with the idea of adepts picking up spell-like abilities. It's easier to persuade my GM to accept something published in Canon rather than an albeit well-written house rule. -Siege |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:57 AM
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#73
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, the same is true of Shamans. You don't see them being crippled, do you? And I know that you don't necessarily agree with the reasoning, as you stated. I'm more throwing the question out there than questioning you directly. ~J |
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Feb 29 2004, 05:04 AM
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#74
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Umm... they have to follow their totem wherever it may lead. Psionics do the same, their totem simply doesn't allow non-mental seeming spells. 'Sides the Mental Form is a killer spirit, no domain, complex to conjure, major advantage. |
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Feb 29 2004, 05:11 AM
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#75
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Shadowrun being inconsistent? <gasp>!
Seriously though, in big flaming letters, it is written "Magic Works This Way." This way includes Hermetic, Shaman and Adepts schema and variations of that -- including aspected casters. Anything else is a weakened derivative and doesn't function at full capability. Does it make a lot of sense? Not really. Like most gamers here, I could rationalize it. One argument is even the most paranoid delusional shares a certain fundamental grasp on reality, albeit tenuous and not necessarily the same rules but there are still consistencies. Disbelieving in a bullet will still get you shot, no matter delusional you are. Now, apply the concept of physics as a constant to SR which holds magic as a similar constant. Although a better example might be the idiots who watch gangsta movies and hold their pistols horizontally instead of vertically. They can still fire a bullet, but it's not as effective or as effecient as more traditional schools of thought. Working against the flow of nature and natural magic produces a weakened result -- hence the psionic who creates a schema for his mind to comprehend the forces at work and battles not only self-imposed limitations but also the withered result of insisting something that isn't quite so. Argument two: That's just the way it is. Why do humans breath oxygen? Why not helium? They're both gases, right? How's that for spontaneous bull-drekking? The simple fact of the matter is: it's that way because the writers envisioned it thus. -Siege Edit: Interesting point Kan -- how many GMs have Totems who interact with their Shamen and provide direction and purpose? |
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