 Lone Star SWAT |
  |
 Jun 20 2010, 04:54 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 6-October 09 Member No.: 17,725  |
I was trying to make a Lone Star SWAT team to go up against the runners based off the stats for the Lone star grunts, and I really realized for the first time how frequently Lone Star SWAT is referred to all over the rulebooks, but to the extent of my knowledge, there are no stats listed for them anywhere (Correct me if I'm wrong!).
This is what I know from the rulebooks: -They use SWAT armor and ballistic shields (of course). These are equipped with gas masks so they can use nausea gas. -They have a Firearms skill of 5 (As per the skill ratings examples, SR Core Rulebook). -They have a cyberware suite designed for them. -[Information about modern SWAT teams] With that in mind, I've created my own stats for a SWAT team. Before you read these, note that I've supplemented a lot of information about Lone Star SWAT due to my lack of prior knowledge, in addition to some house rule infomation I've developed over the campaign: -All of their guns have Safe Target Systems, Guncams, and Advanced Safeties. In my campaigns, this is standard for Lone Star, not only because it's realistic, but because my runners took inordinate amounts of time to strip every fallen foe of everything. -Due to Lone Star's prestegious position in Law Enforcement, martial public image is extremely important to them. Lone Star (And, by extention, Lone Star SWAT) by default uses nonlethal tactics, such as stick-n-shock and gel ammunition, to take as few innocent lives as possible. Now, Lone Star Officers in SR are capable of carrying out many duties which today must be relegated to a SWAT team. For example, beat cops are trained to take out groups of punks with guns, or very small groups of well armed runners. Therefore, I'm assuming SWAT teams are called for exclusively for situations that deal with heavy opposition (be it in numbers, technology, training, or both), or those which have an extremely small margin for error, such as large-scale hostage situations. The way my custom SWAT team operates: -Evacuate area, if applicable -Surround /scope out area with drones, watcher spirits, agents -Deploy snipers, either in buildings or in aircraft -Hackers and riggers offsite will occupy matrix site (assuming no opposition is met) -Physical site surrounded with SWAT team (only if they have time, obviously. Screw this if there's already a firefight going on). -Bring Mage/Negotiator (Astally projecting from base, along with bound spirits) to try to negotiate a peaceful resolution (Assuming no Astral opposition is met, and the criminals in a talking mood) -Astral attack (Stun spells), and Matrix attacks, if neccessary. -Drones will flood every orifice of the building with nausea gas. -Swat team heads in in teams of 3. Lead uses a ballistic shield, second with a shotgun, overwatch with an assault rifle. Anyway, here is my entry team (or what I have of it, so far): Lead, Team Alpha [ Spoiler ] Second, Team Alpha [ Spoiler ] Sniper, team Alpha [ Spoiler ] Lead, Team Charlie [ Spoiler ] Second, Team Charlie [ Spoiler ] Sniper, Team Charlie [ Spoiler ] This is just the ground team. You'll notice that there are no "grunts". Each operative is unique. I make a point of doing his, especially with high-end, smaller teams like this. There is one member of each team missing, and that is the overwatch (the one in back, with an assault rifle). I'm thinking of giving one a tricked out cyberarm, and making one an adept. Also, there are the riggers, hackers, magicians, and a team leader. I don't have any stats for them. So, what does anybdy think of these? Anything crucial I'm missing? Also, are there any SWAT stats printed in any adventures? |
 |
 
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 05:10 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 359 Joined: 10-June 10 From: Renton--metas keep out Member No.: 18,684 |
Well, there was the Lone Star book in 2nd Edition, but that's a hard find now. Lone Star tactics, gear, and personnel were also brought up in State of the Art 2064, late in 3rd edition. So you might want to see about finding a copy of that.
All I can remember off-hand from the last time I read SOTA64 was that SWAT members (non-snipers) were usually armed with SMGs, so the HK-227s should be okay. It also mentioned that at least one member of each team is armed with a CMDT shotgun for door breaching; the Franchis your team seconds have should be good. In my own interpretation, Lone Star as a whole (and the SWAT/High Threat Response teams in particular) are less likely to use non-lethal force. Although they do, as you say, want a good public opinion, they've also had something of a reputation for itchy trigger fingers. But that's how I run things; no reason you need to listen to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 05:28 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
As far as Magicians go, I tend to build them more along the generalist mold when it comes to law enforcement, even if one is providing magical backup to SWAT equivalent forces. Magicians have such a wide variety of things they can do that many of the professionally taught ones are almost certain to be regularly pulling duties other than heavy response and are likely considered their own division that works with the others as needed, much like how an overworked corp wage mage might be in charge of maintaining the wards when he isn't busy minding the orichalcum.
That's not to say that the stereotypical combat mage is a myth or anything, but I would expect that most magicians whose abilities are truly focused only on combat ability would be the self-taught guys with limited potential or who have odd traditions and agendas that simply don't line up well with legit work (like a lot of shadowrunners). I would think a serious heavy duty combat mage would be the sort of luxury that few groups outside of highly specialized forces like a Firewatch team would bother cultivating. There frankly just isn't much call for a guy with a dozen ways to make your head explode unless you're trying to clear out a bug hive or are waging a war, after all. It's a lot of risk and expense for little reward, particularly when you consider how much damage you can do to gangers and the like with just a decent sized spirit and a Stun Ball. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 06:01 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Lone Star also has a lot of mages who are available when the radio asks them to whistle up (for example) a spirit of man with stun bolt and have it report to mage Jones at 26th and 52nd for up to an hour. A dangerous operation could be supported by 2 mages with 30 summoned spirits.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 07:00 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 20 2010, 12:01 AM)  Lone Star also has a lot of mages who are available when the radio asks them to whistle up (for example) a spirit of man with stun bolt and have it report to mage Jones at 26th and 52nd for up to an hour. A dangerous operation could be supported by 2 mages with 30 summoned spirits. I think the rules on Remote Services make that a little fuzzy, but I like the idea. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 07:01 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
If SWAT is going to be a lifesaving organization, they should try and cheesily knock the runners unconsious with gas, elementals etc and resort to room clearing only when other options have been exhausted. Just like how today SWAT might hit you with tear gas for a while befor entering your house.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 08:05 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
The following is from the forementioned Lone Star sourcebook:
-A typical SWAT team consist of sixteen troopers: eight riflemen, a combat decker, a combat mage, four snipers and two potters. -Snipers deploy in pairs with one spotter per pair, this is so that when the spotter calls the shot they both shoot almost simultaniously, but with enought difference caused by thier invidual reflexes so that on bullets breaks a window and the other one has a clear path to target -Riflemen are armed with assault rifles(AK-97, 98 according to SOTA64) -SWAT only answers to high risk/profile situations, others stuff is handelt by the FRT. Or that atleast how its supposed to work, theres a high level of competion between the two units. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 08:09 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
QUOTE (da Loof @ Jun 20 2010, 12:54 PM) So, what does anybdy think of these? Anything crucial I'm missing? Also, are there any SWAT stats printed in any adventures? The closest I have seen are the Red Samurai (SR4A) and the FBI Emergency Response Team (Ghost Cartels). Of which both sets are Grunts. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 01:37 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 4-September 09 From: Poland Member No.: 17,594 |
QUOTE -Due to Lone Star's prestegious position in Law Enforcement, martial public image is extremely important to them. Lone Star (And, by extention, Lone Star SWAT) by default uses nonlethal tactics, such as stick-n-shock and gel ammunition, to take as few innocent lives as possible. I don't think so. It's not riot control; SWAT has to deal with armed, armored, and often skilled opposition - trained terrorists and shadowrunners, for example - which are too tough for regular cops. Playing with gel rounds (stick-n-shock is expensive, and no corp likes expenses) and nausea gas when enemies may wear armor and gas masks (and may know SWAT tactics) is not a good idea. SWAT has to kill enemies or force them to surrender quickly, or they'll kill hostages and probably some of SWAT officers. Even if you accidentaly shoot innocent person, you get reprimand or lose your job. Of course, if rescuing hostages is hyper-priority (there are some LS-friendly corporate execs, for example), or use of much firepower is too dangerous (fight near toxic waste container, which is easy to damage), decisions may be different. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 02:47 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
I tend to agree with others assesment, by the canon LS and KE are both VERY trigger happy organizations so it seems unlikely their swat units would go the opposite direction. As others have also stated there are quite a few ways you can neutralize non-lethal weaponry and considering SWAT's mandate is to deal with situations too hot for normal cops I just can't see them messing with gel rounds, stick and shock maybe because it works like a champ for heavily armored opponents but other then that it doesn't seem likely.
For what it's worth in my SR World HTRT the corporate and government response forces that tangle with shadowrunners or known terrorist threats roll hot and heavy. They have light military armor, drones, helicopters and magical support. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 07:42 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
Most cities don't have dedicated SWAT officers. Typically, they work as regular officers but go through extensive additional training. Any city with more than about a million people will probably have a dedicated SWAT team, but odds are anything smaller will just have officers that pull double duty.
Also, SWAT is only called in when the normal patrol/detective/riot cops can't handle the situation. Hostage situations, heavily armed/armored suspects, things like that. If SWAT's involved, most chances for non-lethal resolution have been taken. They'll typically use snipers to take out hostiles safely (for civilians at least) then move in with heavily armored units armed with SMGs. Keep in mind that Lone Star/KE are corps and not traditional law officers. If a gang war breaks out in the middle of the street, they're going to stand back and take bets on the winner unless it's in a high security rating area. They're more likely to just block off the streets and clean up the mess after than call in SWAT and get involved. If a run is going on, odds are they won't get involved unless LS/KE has a vested interest in the run one way or the other. And SWAT is going to be much less likely to be used in Shadowrun rather than the modern day because most situations where there is a high-threat situation, it's probably going to be on corporate ground. Take hostages at a bank, hospital, jewelry store, whatever; odds are that location is owned by a AA or AAA corporation. LS/KE would only have jurisdiction if they had a security contract with that company. Someone takes hostages at a Stuffer Shack, that is officially Aztechnology land and Aztechnology's problem -- LS/KE cannot go in or they're invading another corporations property. That's why the "Archology Shortcut" was popular with one of my old teams back in me 3rd Ed game....Lone Star's on their ass, they'd hightail it to the Renraku Archology. Second they got on Archology grounds, LS had to cease pursuit until they cleared it with Renraku. And since they did a lot of runs for Renraku, that rarely happened. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 08:08 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
No, stuffer shack is not marked or claimed as Aztechnolgy extraterritoriality. AZT works hard to not link a lot of their brands to them, and that is one. Beyond that only major sites are given extraterritoriality.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 09:49 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 20 2010, 02:08 PM) No, stuffer shack is not marked or claimed as Aztechnolgy extraterritoriality. AZT works hard to not link a lot of their brands to them, and that is one. Beyond that only major sites are given extraterritoriality. It was an example, but it still stands. And any corporate property can be considered extraterritorial. Remember, these are corps...if it makes more economic sense for them to declare something extraterritory, they will...if they don't, they won't. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2010, 10:16 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Since Aztechnology can't practically DO anything about people who shoot up their store and stroll out onto the public street they would be pretty dumb to want to prohibit the police from doing so. It's like the Renraku example. If you shoot up the mall and run out into the street the mall security can't chase you. Because they are now committing a crime that LS can (and will) arrest them for. Because allegedly shooting people in a foreign country isn't against Seattle law, but chasing people down a Seattle street while brandishing weapons IS against the law.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2010, 05:19 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 6-October 09 Member No.: 17,725 |
Alright, so, going by the general consensus, I'm working on finishing out the team that's physically present with this:
-More lethal tactics -An additional SWAT operator in each entry team, for a total of two groups of 4. -SMGs, SMGs, SMGs! -Double the snipers -Add 2 spotters, one on each team. Probably with one of them nifty see-through-walls bits. -Slap 'em all with a TacNet, give them an offsite coordinator who updates teams, issues objectives, etc., and uses the Leadership skill. In addition to the offsite coordinator, there's going to be an astrally projecting mage and a small army of loaned and conjured spirits (alright, maybe just 4), 2 riggers, and 3 of GridSec's finest. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2010, 05:23 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Seems reasonable. But if you take down one team they are likely to play a lot harder the next time. They have some very heavy air assets and can just obliterate a building with stand off-weapons.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2010, 06:46 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
QUOTE (da Loof @ Jun 21 2010, 07:19 AM) -SMGs, SMGs, SMGs! Canonically Lonestar SWAT riflemen carry AK:s. So i would recomend Assault rifles instead of SMG:s. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2010, 06:55 AM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 3-March 10 Member No.: 18,237 |
Doesnt it call come down to the dollar?
How much can LS spend on each team to make them effective, without spending too many resources? All about making a profit? |
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2010, 07:04 AM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
No, SWAT is used for high visibility, high PR impact operations. You don't assign just two detectives when the mayors kid gets kidnapped, you don't cut corners on the teams designed to showcase how LS is "Making Seattle a better place to live" (one dead goblin at a time).
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 03:52 AM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 6-October 09 Member No.: 17,725 |
Alright, so this is the remainder of the SWAT team:
Lone Star SWAT Back Sniper (Team Alpha) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Back Sniper (Team Charlie) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Spotter (Team Alpha) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Spotter (Team Charlie) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Breach Team Third (Team Alpha) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Breach Team Fourth (Team Alpha) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Breach Team Third (Team Charlie) [ Spoiler ] Lone Star SWAT Breach Team Fourth (Team Charlie) [ Spoiler ] There. Also, the SWAT men in the previous posts are getting R4 TacNets tacked on. Any comments? |
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 08:09 AM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 616 Joined: 30-April 07 From: Edge of the Redmond Barrens, Borderline NAN. Runnin' the border for literal milk runs. Member No.: 11,565 |
They all need Ruger Thunderbolts.
And SWAT is used for high profile/static situations. Such as hostage situations (like previous posters said). FRT teams respond to back up normal lonestar, and when crazy psychos are toting heavy weaponry and pulling pink mohawk shinanigans. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 04:54 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 431 Joined: 15-April 10 Member No.: 18,454 |
I would imagine that any SWAT team would be spouting heavy drone coverage. You could replace the spotters with riggers and get some additional drone assets in there. The bane of my runner is now and always will be surveilance drones.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 05:07 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
I would definitely put tacnets in place for swat but then again I tend to liberally throw them out in the game world as their a proven tech.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 08:46 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 4-September 09 From: Poland Member No.: 17,594 |
QUOTE You could replace the spotters with riggers and get some additional drone assets in there. Metahuman spotters have one advantage: they cannot be hacked. But yes, drones are better aside that. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 22 2010, 10:11 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 6-October 09 Member No.: 17,725 |
QUOTE (TommyTwoToes @ Jun 22 2010, 10:54 AM) I would imagine that any SWAT team would be spouting heavy drone coverage. You could replace the spotters with riggers and get some additional drone assets in there. The bane of my runner is now and always will be surveilance drones. Oh, this is just the team that's physically present. There will also be a complement of summoned spirits, an astrally projecting Lone Star Mage, and riggers and hackers from GridSec SWAT divisions (all offsite). |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 14th July 2026 - 01:37 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.