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> Helo questions
Solstice
post Feb 25 2004, 10:23 PM
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1. How high can helos fly in SR? In feet?




2. Can you parachute from a helo? LALO? HALO?


3. Are there rules for converting cargo space to passenger space?

thanks in advance.
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grendel
post Feb 25 2004, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE
1. How high can helos fly in SR? In feet?


I don't have R3 with me at work, so I'll have to check when I get home, but I don't remember a max ceiling specified. If I had to guess, I'd say it was 10,000 feet. Above that, you start running into problems like lack of oxygen in an unpressurized cabin and rotor blade inefficiencies and whatnot.

QUOTE
2. Can you parachute from a helo? LALO? HALO?


Yes.

QUOTE
3. Are there rules for converting cargo space to passenger space?


Again, unsure on this one. Since passenger space is a design option rather than a customization option, my guess is no. About the best you can do is install folding jumpseats/benchseats into the cargo section to represent passenger space.
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Siege
post Feb 25 2004, 11:14 PM
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Blurb about a jump instructor

I couldn't find any hard numbers on my first Google pass, but this fellow claims to have made a sport jump from a helicopter at 3,200 feet.

Manufacturer of Parachutes and jump gear

This page lists the minimum jump height as 500 ft. Eek.

-Siege
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Rev
post Feb 25 2004, 11:56 PM
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I remember hearing about how helicopters have trouble with high mountain rescues because of the altitude. That would put grendel's 10,000 ft in the right ballpark. Surely there is a fairly large range between different helicopters, and cargo weight would make a big difference.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 26 2004, 12:06 AM
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The Service Ceiling of a UH-1 is 14,200ft/4,331 meters. The OH-6, 15,994ft/4,875m. CH-53, 18,504ft/5,640m. UH-60, 19,150ft/5,837m. All limited by oxygen to 10,000ft.
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Crimson Jack
post Feb 26 2004, 12:08 AM
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Reign of Fire <- great parachuting scene! Made me think about SR when I saw it. Cool name for the jumpers too: Archangels.
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Solstice
post Feb 26 2004, 03:11 AM
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Thanks guys. Very interesting. How much do you think the cieling has increased in the last 60 yrs (SR time) with the supposed increase in engine efficiency, rotor design etc?
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FlakJacket
post Feb 26 2004, 05:12 AM
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Whilst there might be a bit of an improvement, I doubt that there'd be great advances. 'Sides, just blame it on the Crash like everything else. ;)
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grendel
post Feb 26 2004, 05:35 AM
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I was incorrect, R3 does list maximum flight ceilings for helicopters as 6000 meters. That equates to 19,690 ft. So that answers your question about improvements in engines and rotorblades.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 26 2004, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (grendel)
that answers your question about improvements in engines and rotorblades.

Yeah. Canonically, there was absolutely none in 60 years.

How much do the helicopter-experts here think there might be room for improvement? How high do you think the Service Ceilings of 2060s helos might be, at best?
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hobgoblin
post Feb 26 2004, 01:51 PM
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about changeing cargo space to passanger space, just stuff in some seats, be that bench or bucket seats :)

the real problem comes when you want stuff like living amenities as they have to be designed into the vehicle. (toilets, beds and so on).
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grendel
post Feb 26 2004, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE
How much do the helicopter-experts here think there might be room for improvement? How high do you think the Service Ceilings of 2060s helos might be, at best?


About the same, really. The technology exists today to allow helos to fly higher, but there's no impetus for that in the market. Helicopters' specialty is low and slow, getting into and out of the places that fixed wing aircraft can't, with the kind of maneuverability and speed that ground vehicles lack. The only application for a high altitude helicopter is mountain rescue, and existing aircraft can be retrofitted for that task. Basically all it requires is supplemental oxygen in the cabin and long chord rotorblades. Some modification must take place in the transmission as well in order to handle the increased weight of the rotorblades, but it's nothing that would require a depot level rebuild.

Long chord rotorblades, though, decrease the helicopter's ability to maneuver at lower altitudes, which is why you only see them on aircraft specifically designed for mountain rescue.

In Shadowrun, there wouldn't be a market for high flying helos due to the development of reliable tilt-rotor and tilt-wing aircraft. That being said, though, R3 lists the max service ceiling for those type aircraft operating in helicopter mode as 6000m.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 26 2004, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (grendel)
The technology exists today to allow helos to fly higher, but there's no impetus for that in the market.

Okay. The few numbers I saw sort of implied that the service ceiling might increase along with other improvements to the helicopter (since newer and faster helos all seemed to have higher ceilings as well). But that might not be that significant a change.

QUOTE
In Shadowrun, there wouldn't be a market for high flying helos due to the development of reliable tilt-rotor and tilt-wing aircraft.

I was just about to ask: What kind of service ceilings do tilt-rotor and tilt-wing aircraft have today? In helo vs the other mode. The service ceiling of a V-22 Osprey is 25,000ft/7,925m apparently, but I suppose that's with rotors forward and I couldn't find mention of helo mode ceiling. The hover ceiling is 14,200ft/4,328m, way more than on e.g. a UH-60 (11,125ft/3,391m).
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moosegod
post Feb 27 2004, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE (Rev)
I remember hearing about how helicopters have trouble with high mountain rescues because of the altitude. That would put grendel's 10,000 ft in the right ballpark. Surely there is a fairly large range between different helicopters, and cargo weight would make a big difference.

Another often overlooked problem for helos doing this is the crazy winds you get in the really choppy mountain areas.
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Kagetenshi
post Feb 27 2004, 01:25 AM
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Indeed. Rescues don't do much good when the rescuers crash their vehicle.

~J
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