Melée combos...., Hadoken Options

[iategod]

Just starting out with an unarmed melée fight character and was wondering what combo moves gel well together. Here a few I thought would work, not sure how well it'll work yet;

1. Range attack (go full defense while closing distance)->charge attack to throwing-> (if ya throw em far enough) rinse repeat.
2. setup->finishing move
3. Counterstike->finishing move

I'm trying to figure out what to do with sweep maneuver. I know the enemy will take a penalty to defense if they are on the ground but does it take a round for them to get up or what's the deal?

[Yerameyahu]

It takes a Stand Up action.

[Dakka Dakka]

It takes a Stand Up action.

If the character is wounded, he has to succeed at a BOD+WIL(2) +Wound Modifiers test to be able to perform the stand up action.
IIRC some amrtail arts are able to cause damage even when attacking to knock down.

[otakusensei]

2. setup->finishing move

Not as great as you'd think. You end up making one slightly more powerful attack instead of two normal attacks over two rounds. If you need the modifiers from Set Up to hit the target outright, you should be running.

[McCummhail]

Subdue (grapple) -> Finishing Move
This allows you to immediately deal damage from a grapple without giving them the option to escape, or immediately strengthen your grip.
Generally a strong fighter can immediately incapacitate a foe in this manner.

Two-Weapon Style -> Riposte (plus adept counterstrike)
Attack and Full Parry with one complex action;
Counterstrike adds the net successes from the full parry to the riposte.
Can still full parry with the other weapon subsequently.

[Dakka Dakka]

Can still full parry with the other weapon subsequently.

Two-Weapon Style specifically allows to attack with one weapon and go on Full defense with the other. It does not allow to go on Full Defense twice.

[Yerameyahu]

Depends on what 'subsequently' means.

[Dakka Dakka]

Of course you can use the left hand for full defense in Action Phase one and the right one in Action Phase 2, but I doubt that McCummhail meant that. Especially since most dual-wielders have ambidexterity anyway so which hand is used for what is not important.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not sure what he meant at all, actually. A Full Defense lasts the entire phase, right? You don't need to parry subsequently unless he *did* mean next phase, see?

Melee's kinda neat, so it'd be nice if some of these combinations were effective (and cost-effective) without being cheesy. Any interesting effects from Martial Arts? I know someone mentioned Arnis de Mano's damaging parry the other day…

[Dakka Dakka]

Full defense last until the defender's next available action phase.

[Yerameyahu]

Right, my wording was unclear. But the point is you wouldn't need or want to do it 'more'.

[McCummhail]

Riposte uses your next attack (complex action) ahead of schedule.
On the turn following you still get a free action and your turn still happens.
When it is your turn, your Full Parry expires (as it is your turn).
Even though you have used your attack early for the riposte with one weapon,
you could still re-initiate a your Full Parry with the other weapon.

Technically riposte is not needed if you have counterstrike,
As the two weapon style allows you to maintain your defense and still capitalize on the counter.
Riposte just gives you more flexibility on when you strike.

[Yerameyahu]

Oh, I see. I'd probably allow that, yeah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It gets trick because we're talking about 'half-actions', but it makes sense and you've invested a bit to get those moves.

[sn0mm1s]

Just starting out with an unarmed melée fight character and was wondering what combo moves gel well together. Here a few I thought would work, not sure how well it'll work yet;

1. Range attack (go full defense while closing distance)->charge attack to throwing-> (if ya throw em far enough) rinse repeat.
2. setup->finishing move
3. Counterstike->finishing move

I'm trying to figure out what to do with sweep maneuver. I know the enemy will take a penalty to defense if they are on the ground but does it take a round for them to get up or what's the deal?

Are you going for flavor or pure effectiveness?

[iategod]

How bout a grapple->sweep(maneuver)->finishing move.

[iategod]

Are you going for flavor or pure effectiveness?

Effectiveness more so than flavor. I mean if you have more than 1 attacker then you'll want one on the ground asap. One attacker and i suppose if you out skill him by a lot you can "play" around.

So 2 attackers, you have 1st initiative, you sweep attacker-A, attacker B attacks you and (?) maybe you parry (complex action from first attacker is used up right?) or riposte/counterstrike... Attack A attemps to stand. Next move would be yours, maybe throw attacker A into attacker B and with luck knock em both down. If they are far enough, ran into a charge, then finishing move.

If this is at all possible, you would have only rolled once for defense and completely man handled 2 goons.

[McCummhail]

Arnis Martial Art: arnisadors may inflict damage to their opponent when making a Called Shot to disarm
+ Stun Baton
Strength unnecessary, works on firearms, "Don taze me bragh!"

[sn0mm1s]

Effectiveness more so than flavor. I mean if you have more than 1 attacker then you'll want one on the ground asap. One attacker and i suppose if you out skill him by a lot you can "play" around.

So 2 attackers, you have 1st initiative, you sweep attacker-A, attacker B attacks you and (?) maybe you parry (complex action from first attacker is used up right?) or riposte/counterstrike... Attack A attemps to stand. Next move would be yours, maybe throw attacker A into attacker B and with luck knock em both down. If they are far enough, ran into a charge, then finishing move.

If this is at all possible, you would have only rolled once for defense and completely man handled 2 goons.

Well, if the attackers are within 1 meter of each other you can attack them both by splitting your dice pool in the same round. In general, I would just prefer to try to kill one or both of the attackers with 1 attack. It is pretty easy to have a base 14DV punch with a str 2 adept character using called shot (with no penalties). With a troll you can bump that up to 18 without much difficulty. Toss in Nerve Strike (which ignores armor) you can incapacitate quickly as well. It really just depends on you and your GM. I mean, if you really wanted to cheese things with a friendly mage, your base punch (no called shots) could be ~16DV and halving all armor and ~20 DV (with a -2 attack penalty) halving all armor with a called shot.

[da Loof]

What I like to do is get martial arts thrice (usually Escrima; that "Deal Damage w/ disarm" is da Bomb. After that, w/e.) and get the maneuvers Disarm, Finishing Move, Two Handed Style, and Riposte, Watchful Guard, and Multi-Strike.

Let's see how 1v1 combat goes:

You go first: You make a called shot to disarm, going on full defense with your other weapon. He is disarmed, and deals damage. You immediately Finishing Move him again, leaving him struck twice and disarmed.

He goes first: Your full-defense weapon disarms him, and you countrstrike, follow it up with a finishing move. Same Scenario as if he attacked.

Combine Watchful Guard with a nice reach weapon, high reaction and good armor, and you can go toe-to-toe with large groups of opponents, no adept powers or cyberware necessary.

[sn0mm1s]

What I like to do is get martial arts thrice (usually Escrima; that "Deal Damage w/ disarm" is da Bomb. After that, w/e.) and get the maneuvers Disarm, Finishing Move, Two Handed Style, and Riposte, Watchful Guard, and Multi-Strike.

Let's see how 1v1 combat goes:

You go first: You make a called shot to disarm, going on full defense with your other weapon. He is disarmed, and deals damage. You immediately Finishing Move him again, leaving him struck twice and disarmed.

He goes first: Your full-defense weapon disarms him, and you countrstrike, follow it up with a finishing move. Same Scenario as if he attacked.

Combine Watchful Guard with a nice reach weapon, high reaction and good armor, and you can go toe-to-toe with large groups of opponents, no adept powers or cyberware necessary.

I am pretty sure that the bolded doesn't work. Riposte and Finishing Move are both interrupt actions. I think you can only do one of those. Otherwise you could just keep doing Finishing Moves.

[Udoshi]

Not as great as you'd think. You end up making one slightly more powerful attack instead of two normal attacks over two rounds. If you need the modifiers from Set Up to hit the target outright, you should be running.

The one situation where set-up IS useful is one in which you -must- have net hits to be effective against the thing you're hitting. If you need to punch a drone or spirit, it can tip the scales when dealing with hardened armor - or barriers, i think.

I am pretty sure that the bolded doesn't work. Riposte and Finishing Move are both interrupt actions. I think you can only do one of those. Otherwise you could just keep doing Finishing Moves.

You actually -can- keep doing finishing moves, if you so desire - finish move explicitly limits you to only using the first action of the entire Next Combat Turn on it, however.

[otakusensei]

The one situation where set-up IS useful is one in which you -must- have net hits to be effective against the thing you're hitting. If you need to punch a drone or spirit, it can tip the scales when dealing with hardened armor - or barriers, i think.

You better hope you can one shot it when you connect though. I had a player bury a very expensive katana in a chopper he was trying to, well... chop. Good solid hit, chopper had some penalties now, but started moving up and away on it's round leaving him with only enough actions on his next round to let go and drop several meters or start swearing.

He took the free action to cuss the pilot out, so in a way he won.

[Yerameyahu]

There are rules for getting your sword stuck in things? Did he critically glitch while also doing a good solid hit?

[sn0mm1s]

You actually -can- keep doing finishing moves, if you so desire - finish move explicitly limits you to only using the first action of the entire Next Combat Turn on it, however.

You only get to use 1 finishing move - you can't chain them.