Gel Packs + Armor Spell Options

[pikafunk]

Does it stack?

Now lets put aside the power gaming comments.

Armor(spell):

This spell creates a glowing field of magical energy around the target that protects against impact and ballistic damage. One success is enough to create the magical field around the character of an Armor Rating equal to the Force of the spell. The Armor spell is compatible with all armor types and adds its rating to the rating of the physical armor being worn. This spell either works or it doesn't; extra successes do not add additional points to the Armor Rating.

Gel Packs:
When gel packs are added to a piece of armor, treat that armor as hardened armor at its normal Ballistic and Impact ratings... A gel-packed armor item cannot be layered with other armor.

Now the question is this. The armor spell is compatible with all armor types AND adds its rating to the rating of the armor being worn. Now, should this not stack, wouldnt there need to be a specific rule stating that hardened armor and/or gel packs do not stack with magical effects?

Clearly there are reasons for saying this does not stack. But according to the rulebooks i see no reason that they would not stack. Thats what houserules are for.

[BitBasher]

They would stack, and I dont really see a house rule needed. Gel packs are pretty obvious, and the armor spell is totally obvious.

[toturi]

It stacks, but I will take the wording of both Armour and Gel Packs as written. That is the Armour spell is added to the Gel packed Armour but that armour is still treated at its normal(ie un-Armour spelled) Ballistic and Impact Ratings.

[Body Hammer]

It stacks.

The gelpacks just cannot be "layered with other armor". Layering (highest armor rating plus half the rating of the 2nd highest and can affect movement/encumbrance/whatever) is different than adding a magical shield around the character.

That's how I'd rule that one.

[Zazen]

Are you asking if the armor ratings are added, or if the armor spell becomes hardened armor by virtue of the gel packs?

If it's the latter, then no.

[BitBasher]

Given the exact quote from the spell description:

[Zazen]

In that case the armor spell becomes totally ineffective unless you are already wearing armor. If you play it that way, then I guess that's fine.

ed- But most do not :P That quote is obviously there to make clear that you do not apply layering penalties but rather that you add their ratings directly.

[Darkest Angel]

They stack, but it only counts as hardened up to the value of the hardened armour, above that it counts as regular. So if you had a gel packed lined coat (4/2) and a force 6 armour spell, your armour would be 10/8, however it would only count as hardened when resisting 4 ballistic and 2 impact.

It is in no way a reinforce armour spell, because that's not what it is or does in any way shape or form - it creates a magical field with the same effects of armour next to your skin.

[dEdDaWg]

I've asked this question on the forum but I never got an explanation that was satisfactory.

Well, what happenes then when a character with said armor gets hit by a heavy pistol (Power 9)? Does the bullets get slowed down by the armor spell, resulting in an attack of Power 3, then hitting the gel packed lined coat, causing no damage (Power 3 is less than the Ballistic Rating of 4)?

OR...

Does the bullet just penetrate the lined coat, then goes through the armor spell? And the character has to soak 2M or whatever?

It seems to me that if the spell menifests outside the clothing, then the first senario will take place. If it justs harden your skin (or whatever), then the later will happen. Looking at the description of the spell (with the glowing and all), it seems to indicate that the spell manifests outside of your clothing. otherwise, one could say that the spell does indeed glow but cannot be seen if it's underneath clothing.

[Lilt]

I think it's the armor spell then the body armor. For one: Armor produces a glowing effect around them, if you said it was hit after worn armor then people would have a case to say that the glow is hidden by clothing. Mind-you: That's possibly better than allowing them 10 points of hardened armor...

[Zazen]

No other armor layering works that way, though. If you carry a ballistic shield, you don't say "first the shield and then my forearm guards and then my helmet and then my hardened armor!".

[pikafunk]

well my point was that gel packs dont allow layered armor. Which leads me to believe items like helmets and shields which arent layers would add to it. and even beyond that the 'armor' spell which adds to the rating of worn armor.

[dEdDaWg]

True. This is magic here though, so it may work differently.

[GunnerJ]

Yeah. It works differently by making you a BIG GLOWING TARGET for anyone with the firepower (magical or mundane) to take you out. Oh, and if your buds don't have an armor spell on them, well, they're pretty much fucked when the mortar shells/manaball spells start landing.

[hobgoblin]

just another reason to load every gun with av ammo when your going after a mage. or maybe jsut pack some great dragon rockets or something ;) overkill is allways good :silly:

[Darkest Angel]

[BitBasher]

[Zazen]

Another valid interpretation:

"One success is enough to create the magical field around the character of an Armor Rating equal to the Force of the spell. The Armor spell is compatible with all armor types and adds its rating to the physical armor being worn." (emphasis mine)

Thus it not only provides its force in armor as a field, but it also adds its rating to physical armor being worn, i.e.
6/6 Force 6 armor spell
11/9 Armor jacket
6/7 Forearm guards
etc. etc. Resulting in someones armor rating going through the stratosphere.


Of course we can come up with many technically correct interpretations, but some of them make little sense. It's our job to disregard interpretations which are ridiculous, and I happen to think that hardening a mages magical field because they have a little bit of hardened armor is pretty ridiculous.

[BitBasher]

Actually I disagree that that instance is ridiculous. That was kind of my point. I let it work that way in my games, but then again the odds of my players getting hardened armor of any kind is nil.

[Zazen]

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to drive home that canon and unreasonable are not exclusive properties, and that reasonable-ness should be decided for ourselves. :)

[BitBasher]

Well heck! no arguments there! :D